Shorty hf bulls

[Okotoks]

So the Saskvalley Yesterday 116Y has got some pretty good calving ease numbers. 14 CED top 4%, -0.4 BW top 15%, CEM  6 top 15%  $CE 47.73 top 10%
His sire Saskvalley Wholesale is even better (herd bull at Double Star Shorthorns)  16 CED top 2%, -0.8 BW top 15%, CEM 10 top 2%,  $CE 50.97 top 4%
Paintearth Jimmy 80Z another
son of Wholesale bred by Double Star and herd bull at Paintearth Shorthorns        13 CED top 5%, -1.0 BW top 10%,  CEM 9 top 4%,  $CE 46.40 top 10%
The Saskvaley Primo 40P heifer out of Paintearth Rama 53U's dam sells bred to Paintearth Jimmy 80Z in the All Star Classic Sale as Lot 2.
Some pretty good calving ease genetics (thumbsup)

 

[Medium Rare]

Saskvalley Wholesale is even better (herd bull at Double Star Shorthorns)  16 CED top 2%, -0.8 BW top 15%, CEM 10 top 2%,  $CE 50.97 top 4%

I'm finding it hard to follow some of these bull's numbers.

A quick look at the progeny list shows Wholesale only has 3 calves reported under 80lbs. It appears ~60 percent of his calves range between 91 and 124lbs. These numbers are not what I would expect out of a heifer bull.

I'm left wondering how big the cows were that helped build that 16 CED number.

 

[Okotoks]

Saskvalley Wholesale is even better (herd bull at Double Star Shorthorns)  16 CED top 2%, -0.8 BW top 15%, CEM 10 top 2%,  $CE 50.97 top 4%

I'm finding it hard to follow some of these bull's numbers.

A quick look at the progeny list shows Wholesale only has 3 calves reported under 80lbs. It appears ~60 percent of his calves range between 91 and 124lbs. These numbers are not what I would expect out of a heifer bull.

I'm left wondering how big the cows were that helped build that 16 CED number.

I am not sure the cows would have to be that big. We weighed all our cows this fall when we weighed the calves. Our smallest cow was a 3 year old and weighed 1010 and her steer calf at 173 days of age was 510 lbs. That's 50.4% of her weight at 173 days. The more surprising part is he was 107 lb unassisted birth weight! That's 10.6% of her weight. His adjusted 205 day weight would be 586 lbs or 58% of her body weight. The sire of the calf was purchased as a performance bull and we only assisted one calf in two calf crops but he still has a CED of 0 reflecting I suppose his plus 5.1 BW. The thing is if you are breeding bulls that are to go into commercial herds to produce replacement females shouldn't they be able to have the larger calves by the terminal breed sires they will be bred to?

 

[RyanChandler]

The heifers, not cows, would have to be huge. The CE epd is supposed to reflect a bull's calving ease when bred to heifers.  It doesn't take just an overly astute cattlemen to look at these 6+ frame 2200lb bulls and know they're not gonna just be supreme calving ease when bred to heifers.  The reported birthweights on Wholesale support just this.

There's just a big disconnect between what I consider to be 'larger calves,' and what maybe some others consider to be 'larger calves.'  Here, amongst commercial cattlemen, even 90lb calves are rare. The days of having to assume the dystocia risk of 100lb calves in order to get good growth rates are long gone.  There are enough bulls out there who can consistently sire 65-85lb bw's that also still have adequate ww's that there's just no justification for having to use these 100lbers.  The M6 Charolais Bull sale is this weekend- I don't have the catalog memorized yet, but there's maybe 1 bull in the entire offering with a bw over 100lbs- and these are out of huge cows that have had the feed just poured to them. Of course people want their commercial cows to be able to calve to these terminal sires - but here, that means being able, as mature cows, to calve out 95lbers, not the hundred twenty pounders. 

This is a true calving ease bull:

WOLF RIDGE PRESIDENT 1A

CED 17, BW -3.2, CEM 4

He's had over 30 calves, both out of registered shorthorn and commercial heifers and EVERY SINGLE ONE has been born unassisted and EVERY SINGLE ONE under 80lbs. Do I want to use this bull on all my cows? No- but that's not what this topic is about.

 

[Okotoks]

The heifers, not cows, would have to be huge. The CE epd is supposed to reflect a bull's calving ease when bred to heifers.  It doesn't take just an overly astute cattlemen to look at these 6+ frame 2200lb bulls and know they're not gonna just be supreme calving ease when bred to heifers.  The reported birthweights on Wholesale support just this.

There's just a big disconnect between what I consider to be 'larger calves,' and what maybe some others consider to be 'larger calves.'  Here, amongst commercial cattlemen, even 90lb calves are rare. The days of having to assume the dystocia risk of 100lb calves in order to get good growth rates are long gone.  There are enough bulls out there who can consistently sire 65-85lb bw's that also still have adequate ww's that there's just no justification for having to use these 100lbers.  The M6 Charolais Bull sale is this weekend- I don't have the catalog memorized yet, but there's maybe 1 bull in the entire offering with a bw over 100lbs- and these are out of huge cows that have had the feed just poured to them. Of course people want their commercial cows to be able to calve to these terminal sires - but here, that means being able, as mature cows, to calve out 95lbers, not the hundred twenty pounders. 

This is a true calving ease bull:

WOLF RIDGE PRESIDENT 1A

CED 17, BW -3.2, CEM 4

He's had over 30 calves, both out of registered shorthorn and commercial heifers and EVERY SINGLE ONE has been born unassisted and EVERY SINGLE ONE under 80lbs. Do I want to use this bull on all my cows? No- but that's not what this topic is about.

This bull certainly does fit the definition of “Heifer Bull”. I think you are assembling a pretty impressive herd bull battery. The Wolf Ridge program has done an excellent job of reducing birth weight by incorporating the Kenmar President 26Z bull into their program.
Other bulls from the same sire line that also fit the “Heifer Bull” category are
Coalpit Creek Leader 6th (Kinnaber Leader 6th) Y Lazy Y, Bowman’s
Lead Outside The Box (TPS Coronet Leader 21st) Ford Family Shorthorns
PVSF Leader 720Z (Kinnaber Leader 9th) Studers
PVSF Leader 826Z (Kinnaber Leader 9th) Oakview
DMH Cherry Fillet (Weston Trademark 3rd) Galbreath Farms
HC Bar Code (Pheasant Creek Leader 4th) Horseshoe Creek
There are probably a lot more but these are the ones from the TPS Coronet Leader 21st line that come to mind.

 

[oakview]

My fall calving group includes a very nice calving ease prospect herd bull.  My Leader 9th son has worked very well on my heifers (of mostly Trump line genetics).  The calf I am so excited about, as a potential calving ease sire, is a son of the Leader 9th bull and out of a 2 year old Deerpark Leader 18th heifer.  He weighed 72 pounds at birth.  I have always gotten along well with Leader 18th and first calf heifers.  The Leader 18th female herself was born unassisted out of a first calf heifer.  I would have to look it up, but I'm sure she didn't weigh much more than 80.  I have taken a few photos and I'll post one later on if they turned out okay.   

 

[oakview]

Light roan Leader 9 son X Leader 18th daughter.  Dark roan Leader 9 son out of McClintock daughter.

 

[Okotoks]

Light roan Leader 9 son X Leader 18th daughter.  Dark roan Leader 9 son out of McClintock daughter.

Those are good looking bull calves (thumbsup) Looks like the combo of your Leader 9th genetics on your herd is working well!
For those that might not know the Kinnaber Leader 9th and Deerpark Leader 18th are two totally different bloodlines both popular in their day. There were a lot of bulls that carried the Leader name from the two different bloodlines.

 

[Okotoks]

Several years have rolled by since this thread was started. I was wondering what bloodlines have come to the forefront for others in birth weight/ calving ease. In our herd Diamond Lord Belmore 56B has proven himself to be both calving ease and lighter birth weight.His CED +18, BW -2,CEM +8 and $CEZ +66.43 . His calves average over 10 lbs. lighter than our other bulls with the exception of Frimley Cowboy Logic 24C that had some very light birth weights on a limited number of 2 year olds. We are contemplating using a son of Logic (BW 80 lbs unassisted out of 2 year old) and a son of Weebollabolla Theodore ( BW 82 lbs unassisted out of 2 year old)on our yearling heifers by Diamond Lord Belmore 56B next year. The photos of 2E and 24E were taken a couple of months ago.

 

[Dale]

KL Prime Time Teddy is owned by Waukaru and he's one of the best.  Teddy's calves here have been born unassisted.  He is rather unique in his spread between birth weight EPD and his weaning and yearling EPD's.

 

[Okotoks]

KL Prime Time Teddy is owned by Waukaru and he's one of the best.  Teddy's calves here have been born unassisted.  He is rather unique in his spread between birth weight EPD and his weaning and yearling EPD's.

KL Prime Time Teddy has some great numbers across the board. His CED is +25 with a BW of- 3.1. Not sure why his CEM would be negative but his $CEZ is +81.70 in the top 1% of the breed!

 

[RyanChandler]

I like Teddy- a lot.  Though his sire's epd profile is more in line with what you should expect. 

 

[Dale]

Surely there are other good Shorthorn calving ease bulls that people are using currently?  We had a Saskvalley Yesterday calf that required assistance from a first calf heifer; however, our other Yesterdays were born on their own.  Our JSF Gauge calves have been born unassisted.

 

[RyanChandler]

The options are endless-- I've only used 1 SH bull, out of ~15,  that I wouldn't breed to heifers.

My lead sire , Saskvalley Alamo has a  +19 CE EPD.  He oughta be in top 5 bulls for CE when they do the spring epd run. 

 

[Dale]

Your Alamo bull is a combo of a lot of good traits, including CEM.  Too many bulls are not sufficient in CEM, and calving without assistance is a big deal to most of my customers as well as here.  Since Teddy was bred by Keith Lauer, I'm wondering if his CEM will improve some over time--most KL cattle are rock solid in CEM and several other traits. 

You surely are screening your bulls pretty well for calving ease.  Also, in your part of North America, calves tend to be born a bit smaller than up north, right?  I know a club calf producer who ships all his recips to TX or OK for calving them out; up here in the corn belt he expected to pull all the good ones (not something I want to do).  Another factor could be that the average Shorthorn cow has a big pelvis--that has been our experience when comparing Shorthorn calving to other breeds. 

Are there any of the 14 bulls you have used to breed heifers that are available AI?  I keep trying to find the perfect heifer bull and sample something new about every year.

 

[Medium Rare]

Leveldale Righteous, Leader 720z, and Cherry Fillet have all thrown sub 75lb calves here this year.

 

[knabe]

I would rather have distributions of numbers rather than a number.

 

[shortybreeder]

I'm looking for ideas of a bull to pick up semen on for my 5 replacement heifers next summer. My primary goal is quality replacement females, 2nd is commercial oriented herd bulls, and 3rd is steers that will grow. The pedigrees are as follows:
HP Manimal 1C x Homedale Blizzard 820
Saskvalley Outlaw x JPJ
Homedale Discovery x Homedale Creole 135
Homedale Creole 135 x commercial Red Angus
Homedale Discovery x commercial Red Angus

I was thinking about "Dover" or Bar N Ripper, then I have a Hot Commodity grandson herd bull that I plan to clean up with. I've got JDMC Big Sky/Homedale Discovery semen in the tank I could use, but I'd like to use 1 AI bull on all of the heifers to try building a more consistent replacement group out of a pretty varied group (as evidenced by the pedigrees).

Thanks in advance for any suggestions

 

[coyote]

This is Muridale Robert 35U , he has been used on heifers with no problems. He makes real broody, beefy cows that produce and stay in good shape.
We got him back from a commercial breeder after seeing how well he produced and seeing how well his daughters produced.
The cow is a daughter of Robert out roughing it this winter.
I have semen on him at Hawkeye.

 

[knabe]

This is Muridale Robert 35U.

now we are talking. compare him with his sire. he looks a little shorter spined, carriers incredibly more mass, not quite as smoothly made, perhaps carries more condition, but that could be how recent in working clothes.  did you ever scan either bull?