Some random thoughts for new cattle breeders

[trevorgreycattleco]

Yes we all should be taught that way. Doesn't make it so tho. And like you Doc I'm not going to change how I do things.

 

[lcattleco.]

So I guess if you are not a profit minded cattle operation, then you are no less a hobby?  No offense, but grass fed beef isn't going to feed the world, I think thats what they call a niche market, just like shorthorns.  I'snt that what showing cattle is, a hobby.  As far as the crooked people in the show cattle business, what a joke or should I say excuse.  Look at the people that actually matter, bonham, guyer, martin, may, reimann, goretzka.  They work harder than any people I know and If I had kids I wouldn't hesitate a second to send them on the road with any of these people because they have more integrity than anybody on this board.....

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I don't know much about the who's who of show cattle. I can't afford that lifestyle. If you really think grassed beef is a niche explain tall grass beef company. Explain the article from fox news about the exploding demand for grass fed beef. Keep your head in the sand and call it whatever you want. I will call it a golden opportunity to sell beef for a premium without the high input of grain. Yea I guess that's just a silly concept with no merit.  :

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Ask JTM how he liked his shorthorn bull on his angus cows.


So what you say has no place is already in place and doing pretty damn good.

 

[aj]

lcattle....why do you hide your identity? What is your name? I would recommend sending your imaginary kids to work at a feedlot on weekends......they would learn a heck of a lot more. just my opinion.

 

[lcattleco.]

Sorry, guess I haven't herd of tall grass beef.  But I have herd of jbs swift, conagra, smithfield, packerland.  what percentage of the cattle do they process in this country, probably 95%....  Do they have grass fed products?  whats the difference what my name is, its the truth...  Guess I could send them to work in a feedlot, I did wnen I was 19 for a summer in college.  They can learn to drive a feed truck 12 hours a day... for 9 bucks an hour and there spanish better be good....  Or they can learn from people who try to do the best at what they do and meet some very interesting people who they bond with for a lifetime......

 

[shortii]

First off I am going to say I am 23 and have been around cattle for most of my life, Obviously not as a long as most but I figure there is no time better than present to get this off my chest. A niche market is a subset of the market of which a product is being focused on. So what I am saying is the show industry is a niche market, as well as grass fed beef and organic beef. There is nothing wrong with that, conventionally grown cattle is what is leading the cattle industry as a whole there for everything before that would be considered a niche market.
Secondly, JTM you brought up some good points that I think a lot of people on here must have misunderstood. In my point of view there a good people that do well in the cattle industry and there are bad people also do well. There are people that you can trust and there are people that you cannot. Even though I haven’t ever met you I can tell you are a good person and I respect you for that.
LcCattle, I don’t really know where you are going with your argument. You talk how the Shorthorn breed is a niche breed like it’s a bad thing and then you go off saying you use sires such as Heatwave and Monopoly which also happen to be sires that are used for a niche market. I guess what I am trying to get at is that in a real world situation if you trying to breed cattle for meat characteristics you would want to use a bull that has good carcass traits and if you breed for show steers than use bulls that are bred to produce show calves.

 

[aj]

Whats wrong with a 9 $ an hour entry level job........what is the alternative.......go on welfare till screw someone over for big bucks in the club calf deal?

 

[rackranch]

So I guess if you are not a profit minded cattle operation, then you are no less a hobby?  No offense, but grass fed beef isn't going to feed the world, I think thats what they call a niche market, just like shorthorns.  I'snt that what showing cattle is, a hobby.  As far as the crooked people in the show cattle business, what a joke or should I say excuse.  Look at the people that actually matter, bonham, guyer, martin, may, reimann, goretzka.  They work harder than any people I know and If I had kids I wouldn't hesitate a second to send them on the road with any of these people because they have more integrity than anybody on this board.....

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That right there is funny I don't care who ya are. (lol)

 

[J2F]

So I guess if you are not a profit minded cattle operation, then you are no less a hobby?  No offense, but grass fed beef isn't going to feed the world, I think thats what they call a niche market, just like shorthorns.  I'snt that what showing cattle is, a hobby.  As far as the crooked people in the show cattle business, what a joke or should I say excuse.  Look at the people that actually matter, bonham, guyer, martin, may, reimann, goretzka.  They work harder than any people I know and If I had kids I wouldn't hesitate a second to send them on the road with any of these people because they have more integrity than anybody on this board.....

Please explain! I guess I am slow. Who on this thread has attacked any of these outfits or made claims against their integrity? Why are some of you so upset about warning young people  that there are some shady characters and practices in the business? Is your world full of rainbows and sunshine? I am sure if any of these outfits  was to read this thread they would agree this does goes on at times in this business but I don't know why they would think anyone on here is talking about them specifically so why do you.Why do you feel the need to lash out an attack everyone on this whole board, only a hand full of us has even commented  on this thread. Why don't you calm down, re-read the thread slowly without trying to read between all the lines and see how silly you are being.

Is there better show cattle, feed programs, genetics, and cattle people to judge how a calf will grow into a show animal? YES
Is there people who put out false claims of cheating and scandal cause they have barn blinders on and can't handle losing? Yes
Is there people who lie, cheat and steal? Is there some politics at some shows? Are all judges honest and fair?  all evil needs to succeed is for good men to sit and do nothing.

Nobody here is trying to take away from smart hard working people who succeed in any part of the cattle business (or at least I know I am not) and I do not feel that shining a light on something bad in an industry gives the whole industry a black eye, but covering up not bringing it to light does.

 

[lcattleco.]

Cause its fun thats why.  I have read this forum for a few years and I have always wondered why they call it steerplanet, so a certain few can get on here and constantly bash show cattle, namejust doesn't do it justice.  Or atleast a certain few that constantly spout about how broken it is.  The whole economy is broken and why, the root of all evils, the dreaded show steer!!  Have any of the 7 people on here that constantly complain been to cattle show in awhile.  It's not like it was ten years ago, bring a so called no doing cripple like all of you seemed to do is winning and c where you stand....  They are sounder and more functional than they have been in twenty years...  How do we judge these show cattle that a certain few of the responders on this thread want, which animals the most crooked legged and which one is the most pigeon a$$ed?

 

[lcattleco.]

sorry, I should have started a thread with some of my random thoughts.  1.  If your new to the show cattle business, align your self with someone who has the same thoughts and goals as you.  You will be happier and will probably more succeful.  2 Study sale catalogs and cattle and if you can't go yourself find people that you trust and have them bid on the phone for you.  And yup, trying to raise competitive show cattle is not easy.  It takes alot of your time and lots of late nights checking cows, breeding, calving and feeding in the snow cold rain heat and anything else mother nature has to offer.  4. Don't expect get on a forum with 5 of your friends and expect an industry all be it small to change because you don't like it  5. If your not willing to do what it takes to be competitive, missing alot of the things that most city people think are neccisary in a good life, then don't bash the people that are..  glass half full or half empty

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I didn't know anybody on here but one person. I have made friends ON here because we happen to think alike. You do your thing I'll do mine. You just go a bit overboard with your bashing.

 

[lcattleco.]

How did I go overboard??

 

[Will]

One thing I find interesting is how shows have changed.  I think that when people first started showing they only showed what they had raised or a bull they have bought to help promote thier farm .  I find it really interesting that you will see some breeders buying show heifers for their kids at other breeders farms then in just a few weeks they have a sale and try and sell someone else thier the calves they have raised that they did not think were good enough to show themselves.  I try to just show what we have raised and look at it as a way to promote our breeding program.  I will admit that I can be very hypocritic as I did buy a show heifer for my son last year.  Now that is my ramble for the day.   

 

[bryan6807]

A cattle show is somewhat comparable to a car show, you want to present the prettiest product you have. Everybody knows show steers are pampered and it takes alot of work to make them look good, but the fact remains that there has to be some performance on the animals part in order to maintain condition. As far as heifers go, I see alot of judges picking Angus, Simmy, and other purebreds that will work in a honest environment. Like it was stated before, show cattle is a niche, just as grass fed beef is as well. I would guess that most of us do it because we enjoy it. I personally have done homework and strive to raise cattle that have eye appeal, but are also honest cattle that will work for commercial guys as well. I do not expect my calves to blow the competition away, but they have been able to hold their own and I know they will work as breeding stock when it counts. kudos to those who have made it in the show ring and kudos to those who have a market that appeals to the commercial guy.

 

[JTM]

I just think it's funny that the whole motivation for writing this topic was to warn new comers to the show cattle scene and help them understand some things but it's almost like some people have a problem with that. I pointed out some things that are undisputable facts within the show cattle scene. Is part of it me venting a little bit? Sure it is. Not because I'm tired of losing or nobody showed up to a sale I had, but because I sincerely think that it's wrong. I'm not trying to tell people what to breed or that they shouldn't show cattle. I am just laying out some good information that they should know going in that will help them make decisions about how they are going to conduct their program. If this hurts somebody's feelings or gets them defensive I am not going to apologize for speaking the truth. You can either fall in line, play the game and shush your mouth, or do like I am doing, breeding what I want, taking the liberty to share with others my experiences, and feeling good about it.

I would love some PROOF of your truth. Do you have photos with a daily newspaper in front of a heifer that was born before Christmas but is in a april class. How about  a weigh ticket of a newborn clubby bull calf  that says 140 but they advertise 88. You have no proof you have a opinion. Or at least show me your PROOF.

Frostback and Doc, You both seem like nice people to me but trying to call me out as not knowing the truth or not having truth is just silly. Do you think that I would go on this forum and say the things I said without having proof or knowing without doubt that what I am saying is a problem? If you want to stay in denial then that is your choice. I'm honestly not worried about how some people might think about what I have said. I've been around enought to speak with confidence.

So I guess if you are not a profit minded cattle operation, then you are no less a hobby?  No offense, but grass fed beef isn't going to feed the world, I think thats what they call a niche market, just like shorthorns.  I'snt that what showing cattle is, a hobby.  As far as the crooked people in the show cattle business, what a joke or should I say excuse.  Look at the people that actually matter, bonham, guyer, martin, may, reimann, goretzka.  They work harder than any people I know and If I had kids I wouldn't hesitate a second to send them on the road with any of these people because they have more integrity than anybody on this board.....

lcattleco, I honestly don't know where to start with responding to you. I don't know that you took things that I said very well and maybe you are feeling some conviction or something. I just have to say that I think you are way off on a lot of what you are saying about Shorthorns and your constant bashing of the breed. Also, I  never mentioned any names or programs but yes, I do know, and have heard straight from people who have seen, or done the things that I have discussed and warned newcomers about in this topic. I just hope that this discussion helps people understand more about the cattle industry and I think it will. Thanks for continuing the discussion, it has been entertaining.

 

[Doc]

Frostback and Doc, You both seem like nice people to me but trying to call me out as not knowing the truth or not having truth is just silly. Do you think that I would go on this forum and say the things I said without having proof or knowing without doubt that what I am saying is a problem? If you want to stay in denial then that is your choice. I'm honestly not worried about how some people might think about what I have said. I've been around enought to speak with confidence
[/quote]

JTM, I think you need to go back and reread my post. I made a general response to a post that TGC made. If you've got proof, great. I would take it to someone that can do something about it. I agree that when you go to a show and these 7 and 8 month old heifers are as big as a yearling hfrs, and they have a foot and head on them that don't look like a calf it sure seems to give credit to the rumors that you hear. You may be friends with these people and they may have confided in you that they are moving them a min. of 3 months to get proof. I don't know and don't care. I just know that I personally don't have that proof, just rumors that I hear. So I personally won't get on a forum like and repeat the rumors that I've heard. Didn't mean to offend you, so if I did I apologize. 

 

[firesweepranch]

I'm with Doc on this. We have not been doing this long (4 years), but I have yet to see a pregnant teen working and showing cattle. I think the kids that get involved in this aspect are less likely to get in trouble, so to speak. Just about every teen I know has gone on to do something, like college, and have more drive to be successful in life than the teens playing video games at home or whatever activities.
The show industry is just another avenue for people to raise kids, have fun, and not worry about completely losing their investment. At least for us, the cattle can come home and have a calf every year (hopefully) and make a return. Our herd started with two show heifers, and is now up to over 30. Some bought, some bred on our own. We have three generations in production, and I feel like my kids are learning life lessons from people we approve of, not peers they hang out with after school hours (they have no time to hang with peers unless the peers have show heifers also  (thumbsup) ). It is the lifestyle we chose to raise them in, and I think we are heading in the right direction; my teen wants to be a vet, our 10 year old wants to be a pediatrician, and right now my 8 year old son wants to be a motorcycle mechanic! All three have their own calves to care for. We may not win against the big boys, but we have fun playing the game and getting close!
I will admit that is there is big drinking problem with kids involved in the show cattle industry, evidenced by the teenagers walking around with Solo cups filled with alcohol (don't kid yourself, we can smell it when you walk by!). But, that is my responsibility as a parent to make sure my kids do not get involved in that part of the game. Teach them to make the right choices, and hopefully they will! Model the behavior you want them to exhibit.

 

[ZNT]

You may be friends with these people and they may have confided in you that they are moving them a min. of 3 months to get proof. I don't know and don't care. I just know that I personally don't have that proof, just rumors that I hear. So I personally won't get on a forum like and repeat the rumors that I've heard. Didn't mean to offend you, so if I did I apologize. 

I don't think you have to be THAT much of an "in" to know what is going on with the ages.  I've seen a major player/breeder sell a December as an April in his sale.  Not rumor, but fact.  It's out there.  We all know it's out there like the elephant in the middle of the room.  And it will continue as long as the judges reward the kids, and the breeders for their false advertisement of their cattle.

I will admit though, I did see one judge make a stand when a 4 month old heifer (on paper), weighting probably 600+ pounds, and outweighting by 100 pounds the heifers that were 2 month older, and the judge just buried it and said it must have been entered in the wrong class at the Ft Worth Jr Maine Show.