Some random thoughts for new cattle breeders

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RyanChandler

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J2F said:
Warning  HIJACK w/ stick poking BEAR (clapping)

What if game!!! <party>

What if major shows announced JAN 1st 2013 that come 2016  all entries must be free of any known genetic defects and all division champions will be tested?

How would the industries change?

Anybody think it will change any major players? IMO it will not they will adapt and stay on top doing what they do best. Finding the best cattle that fit the mold and MARKETING! Genetic defects is a byproduct of the mold not the reason for their success.

Can anyone explain how the cattle industry as a whole would be weaker if this was to happen? Individually (show, club, breed, commercial)? This is by no means a pet peeve of mine. I don't want to mess with genetic defects in my heard so I buy clean heifers and don't use infected bulls right now but the topic does interest me in the fact that I can't figure out how this is better for the cattle industry as a whole to have genetic defects around?

Would you clarify what you mean here?  IMO, the Genetic defect is not a byproduct but the culprit for their success.  TH carrier animals have pronounced bone and hair and these are desirable traits that judges select for.  Show ring success is the sole reason animals with TH stick around. 

It's absolutely not better for the cattle industry to have these animals around.  Not to mention, no real cattleman would ever knowingly use a carrier animal. It's just not in their best interest.

trevorgreycattleco said:
I can't see how it would weaker. Do genetic defect cattle grow better? If it wasn't for the big bone and lots of hair, they wouldn't be desired. What does bigger bone and more hair bring to the table as a added benefit for producing beef cattle? 

More flat bone => more surface area for muscle attachment
 

aj

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The th genetic defect is an amazing deal. Most people try and steer away from lethal genetic defects. But in order to win a steer show you have to have a calf that is a carrier. It is absolutely crazy. This has required thousands of head of show cattle to be th carriers when the beef industry wants no part of these junk cattle. It has driven such a wedge between the show steer industry and the real world it is amazing. At first they didn't know what th defects were......then they confused the pha calves with the th calves and or thought they were the same defect. Then they developed a test to identify carriers which in my opinion saved the day. A movie or book could be written on the th defect........like "The battle of the bull runts'. Except it could be "th positively amazing".
 

savaged

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Greenfield OH
Good milking, sound and clean high % or even pure bred cows can produce good show cattle.  Watch the sale prices for quality bred cattle - forget the fancy Monopoly, Heat Wave, et. al. show heifers - these are prices often driven by vanity and status seeking.  Pay attention to the cattle being sold to MAKE MONEY.    The right kind of maternal bred cows and solid bloodlines (also defect free) will bring much more than the "clubby" breds.  The experienced guys in it for profit know where to invest, and it ain't in heavy composite cattle that won shows as babies.  $10,000 spent on the right cow is a whole different deal than the same thrown at a show steer or even heifer.  The right cow, IMO, can produce a variety of different ways (breeding or club) and do it well.    They are worth their weight in diesel fuel & shelled corn ;)

The picture is of a pretty darn good show steer out of a very sound, heavy milking, pure bred Dream On Simmental.  She can equally produce really good breeding stock (pure bred or cross).  To me there is no need to build a herd of one dimensional cows.  I want my cows to be versatile enough to produce club calves, seed stock, or breed show heifers depending on how I breed them.  I think it can be done successfully.





 

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GONEWEST

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savaged said:
Good milking, sound and clean high % or even pure bred cows can produce good show cattle.  Watch the sale prices for quality bred cattle - forget the fancy Monopoly, Heat Wave, et. al. show heifers - these are prices often driven by vanity and status seeking.   Pay attention to the cattle being sold to MAKE MONEY.    The right kind of maternal bred cows and solid bloodlines (also defect free) will bring much more than the "clubby" breds.   The experienced guys in it for profit know where to invest, and it ain't in heavy composite cattle that won shows as babies.   $10,000 spent on the right cow is a whole different deal than the same thrown at a show steer or even heifer.   The right cow, IMO, can produce a variety of different ways (breeding or club) and do it well.    They are worth their weight in diesel fuel & shelled corn ;)

The picture is of a pretty darn good show steer out of a very sound, heavy milking, pure bred Dream On Simmental.   She can equally produce really good breeding stock (pure bred or cross).  To me there is no need to build a herd of one dimensional cows.  I want my cows to be versatile enough to produce club calves, seed stock, or breed show heifers depending on how I breed them.   I think it can be done successfully.

Just curious as to what level you feel that steer can compete.
 

J2F

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-XBAR- said:
J2F said:
Warning  HIJACK w/ stick poking BEAR (clapping)

What if game!!! <party>

What if major shows announced JAN 1st 2013 that come 2016  all entries must be free of any known genetic defects and all division champions will be tested?

How would the industries change?

Anybody think it will change any major players? IMO it will not they will adapt and stay on top doing what they do best. Finding the best cattle that fit the mold and MARKETING! Genetic defects is a byproduct of the mold not the reason for their success.

Can anyone explain how the cattle industry as a whole would be weaker if this was to happen? Individually (show, club, breed, commercial)? This is by no means a pet peeve of mine. I don't want to mess with genetic defects in my heard so I buy clean heifers and don't use infected bulls right now but the topic does interest me in the fact that I can't figure out how this is better for the cattle industry as a whole to have genetic defects around?

Would you clarify what you mean here?  IMO, the Genetic defect is not a byproduct but the culprit for their success.  TH carrier animals have pronounced bone and hair and these are desirable traits that judges select for.  Show ring success is the sole reason animals with TH stick around. 

It's absolutely not better for the cattle industry to have these animals around.  Not to mention, no real cattleman would ever knowingly use a carrier animal. It's just not in their best interest.

trevorgreycattleco said:
I can't see how it would weaker. Do genetic defect cattle grow better? If it wasn't for the big bone and lots of hair, they wouldn't be desired. What does bigger bone and more hair bring to the table as a added benefit for producing beef cattle? 

More flat bone => more surface area for muscle attachment

XBAR I am confused when you say  "Genetic defect is not a byproduct but the culprit for their success" If you mean the bull then I agree if you mean breeder then I disagree. The breeder is just using the best animal available to make calves that fit the mold. If they were no longer aloud to use defect animals then they would just find different animals and go on IMO just as successful as they are now. I do agree the only reason certain defects are still around is they do so well in the show ring but in the what if game I say if the rules changed the defect animals would disappear and breeders would find other animals that produced calves that fit the mold.
 

aj

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As I understand it you can take a grade commercial cow.......breed her to a th carrier bull........and if the resulting calf is a carrier it actually has kind of an instant show ring look to it(enough for say a county fair steer). That is a powerfull instatnt pre potent tool. That is why it it such a hard thing to get rid of. It also instantly creates a gap between the beef industry at a whole. I don't care what the show ring people do but they MUST realize the beef industry will not take them seriuously if the monkey with with the th stuff. Thats why I hate the Shorthorn breed association allows th cattle. I understand the decession but man it really pigeon holes the breed as a breed not serious about the beef industry.
 
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