THE MAN WHO DISCOVERED DIVIDEND_AND NEWER POSTS WITH DIVIDEND INFLUENCED CATTLE

[Duncraggan]

Is there any photo of the AF Double Dynasty bull? I've heard a few people talking about him in the past few weeks. They are supposed to have sold $50,000 worth of pre-booked semen from him already.

Now, in my book, that's good money!

It seems as though all the Alden's cattle I've seen pictures of are red-necked roans, or is it pure coincidence

 

[coyote]

Knabe during that era there were a lot of gutless wonders around. One thing he did have more of than most bulls around was a fairly good rear quarter.
A good thread to start would be " Bulls of the 80's" you sure would see some interesting bulls.

 

[Will]

We owned a Dividend son out of NPS Mirage registration # *x4069857.  We only had him a short time before we lost him to injury.  We kept a few daughters that have been culled down to I think three registered cows.  Some of them were on the hard keeping side.  What he really work well on was some smaller framed Angus based cross bred cows.  We have a handful of blue roan cross bred cows that are his daughters that are awesome cows.  They always raise the biggest and best calves.  We have kept some of them that would actually be 7/8 shorthorn but we have never registered them,  Probably one of my many mistakes.  I should have collected him.

To think about it we have a shorthorn marked Headliner steer calf out of one of his granddaughters that looks very good.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

He's way different than what you have now much finer boned and narrower based with less set to his hock and clearly nowhere the volume of bonanza.  Are people creating a headache?

Why would more volume create more headaches? To much of anything is bad obviously but I'm curious.

 

[knabe]

He's way different than what you have now much finer boned and narrower based with less set to his hock and clearly nowhere the volume of bonanza.  Are people creating a headache?

Why would more volume create more headaches? To much of anything is bad obviously but I'm curious.

The headache would be trying to get the volume back in.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

So your saying plugging these bulls in now would hinder not improve today's lines? Sorry I didn't get it for awhile.

 

[hamburgman]

I wonder how much feeding has to do with some of these cattle not having guts in the 80s.  It would be interesting to have those embryos and feed them the high fiber diets that we feed today to show calves  and see how they turn out.  Not saying they would be belly draggers but wonder how much you could drop them.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Dividends Impact himself was anything but a gutless wonder from the progeny I have seen over the years O0

 

[mark tenenbaum]

So what breeding was the 13th bull in ur opinion. What was his "cross"? if u will

ask tim ohlde. HE WOULDNT HAVE A CLUE-WHEN WAS THE LASTIME HE WENT TO IRELAND -ALDESNS WOULD

 

[Dale]

This thread helps refresh or teach us about what those Irish animals were really like. 

What AI bulls have great feet?  Which bull was truly calving ease?  A good attitude is found in certain bloodlines.  Within this thread and others on SP there are answers to many questions.   

Several of my favorite cattle trace have some Irish heritage, very far back in their pedigrees.  JJC Wild Side bull was nearly 10 years old in 2011 when we purchased him.  I'd looked at Wild Side's pedigree and saw no Improver in him, but lots of Dividend and other Leader breeding.  However, back in his pedigree, Improver was there 3 times--what was going on 40 years ago is still relevant.

Inheritance is about passing along physical traits and genes, both good and bad.     

 

[mark tenenbaum]

You are right-with all the trials and tribulations even generations away (Double stuff on a great g daughter of dividend etc) THE DIVIDEND IMPROVER CROSS HAD A CATALYST of some kind that is hard to explain-BUT IT ALWAYS SEEMED TO exemplify the posistive rather than negative attributes of both sides. Robert Alden certainly proved that, for the 31 years Ive known the AF deal. He also bred MANY other scenarios. He remains the most active breeder to incorporate all manners of pedigrees and breeding scenarios of anyone I know in Shorthorns and plusses. And it worked well alot of the time. O0

 

[knabe]

with 3 defects in developmental genes, it's no wonder triple stuff has something mysterious.


test the triples that are good, and if they don't have one defect, i'll be impressed.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

FIRST OF ALL ALMOST EVERYTHING HAS DS IN THEORY-THO I AND MANY OTHERS HAVE NEVER SEEN A DS CALF-THAT WAS CRIPPLED IVE SEEN HUNDREDS THAT WERENT. THERE AGAIN-thats out in the regular every day deal.Not test tube world.  Just ask Robert Alden or me about TH DS -and in Roberts case all three. From line bred-ImproverxDouble stuff or Double visions etc etc.At Deertrail we had a bunch of daughters of a bull I called UB DTR Junior Walker-That was back when the cattle werent tested but some of his daughters that were-tested triple clean That would be on every one but Deertrail Sue She was TH The last one we tested is still around 4282672  Nancy G Heeter tested her and two daughters in 2016.ALL TESTED  CLEAN OF TH and PHA The 2016 daughter was sired by Taffeta-Money Man-who was out of a Junior Walker Grand daughter-So line bred both sides THE FIRST DAUGHTER of DEERTRAIL TAFFETA BY Junior Walker (UB TAFFETA) was sired by RHF Magnum the worst bull for TH disasters we ever used.The bad ones came out of cows that went back to Mill Brooke Mark 4 and Hilltop Breeding. I have never heard of deformed calves from that breeding but Magnum threw a bunch of them. Magnum was a HI $ bull but went to town. That Magnum sired Taffeta female ( DOUBLE TH?) was showed by Tyler Atwood and had several calves commercial and otherwise-SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A MESS-she wasnt and neither were any of her calves. IN FACT SHE HAD A CALF BY A HERD BULL FROM MY MAGNUM-CUMBERLAND CALLED CRAFTSMAN-A third possible TH . He never sired any monsters either.  Nancy didnt have time to use the long drawn out process-But she was president of the Shorthorn ASSOC so if she said SEKS tests were clean in 2016- they were clean. Junior Walker was TH and DS He only had one full calf crop and a smaller number the next year I bought one of the  last junior Walker females SHE GOT BRED to 20 20 Vision for a first calf while being showed by a friend of the family.-No problem heifer calf. Bartels bros in Nebraska bought a white bull calf (Deertrail White Lightning) that was a son who they registered 64 head to in their herd . Many of their cattle were real clubby by that time (1999) with all the scoundrels in the background. The one brother told me at Louisville they never had a th disaster calf he knew of. So there seems to be some kind of TH strain at least that varies in strength. I am sure there are a ton of clean ones from TH x TH matings elsewhere. Not that Id ever knowingly try that. And we test anything that might be suspect. O0

 

[knabe]

are all the offspring mentioned traceable with DNA parentage tested clean in the shorthorn database, or are the results kept private.


please provide examples instead of anecdotes.


sure seems like these magical cattle should have taken over the industry by now and replaced angus.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Ask the former president of the American Shorthorn Assoc Nancy Heeter who tested 4 out of the 6 animals listed She didnt feel like waiting 3 months to get results After running KABSU she has been in bovine genetics for years-So she got them tested and had no reason cater to you or anyone else. I tested JR Walker who was born in 1997 and several but not all of his daughters and some grandaughters Very few of these cattle are around anymore. there was only one TH female. Deertrail Sue.I am speaking of cattle many of which were around before testing And about cattle that did not HAVE DEFORMED CALVES but should have. Thats what I am talking about not the political speedbump bu!#$%&*sh#%^&t trying to get results at the association and their payola test or no recordation at all-From accurate llegitimate labs that test alot of different breeds just fine.  I dont live in a smug self satisfied test tube world and do not care to. Lets see the tests on all 4 of your herd cowboy O0

 

[knabe]

You know how to look it up huckleberry.

Your pants aren’t tight enough.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Thats because Im straight O0

 

[knabe]

Thats because Im straight O0

straight up in your pants!


glad i can still turn you on.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

????? You and sarrenon are two dreamboys that are destined to be strangers in the night  The Polynesian Cabanna boy meets a gerbile busting cowboy of the San Fran Cisco  sage

 

[knabe]

Your biggest past time is calling other people what you are.

Never going to change.

Your favorite topic is yourself.