The Ultimate Feed Lot Steer

[aj]

Feed conversion fascinates me. Alot of people going through the motions but I don't think anyone has figured it out. If you could develop a line that was truly superior and trademark it you would be rich. Bang in pen after pen at say a 4-1 conversion.

 

[RyanChandler]

No doubt in my mind that a HOL steer will grade out better 9 times out of 10 than ANY BEEF Steer--- but if you don't mind pooring, and I mean POORING the feed to them for TWO years, as opposed to 12 or 13 months.  I think it will take a pretty good, OLD holstein to rival a low percentage British/ high percentage Cont. steer in REA.  6 or 7 dollar corn pretty much puts a limit to that.

Those Holstein steers will finish in the same amount of time if fed right.  And by fed right I mean a calf-fed finishing ration.   When fed high corn diets, Holstein steers usually will grade Choice at 1,050 to 1,200 pounds.


http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1443&context=extensionhist&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dcalf%2520fed%2520finishing%2520holstein%2520%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D3%26ved%3D0CFgQFjAC%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fdigitalcommons.unl.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1443%2526context%253Dextensionhist%26ei%3DHjWrT-qTC6Ka2gXskP3cDA%26usg%3DAFQjCNFAFY-CBoHEPXoOfm9oojYqJoW9WA%26sig2%3D0_D8LzmwgIJyFH4xT6RafQ#search=%22calf%20fed%20finishing%20holstein%22

 

[cornish]

No doubt in my mind that a HOL steer will grade out better 9 times out of 10 than ANY BEEF Steer--- but if you don't mind pooring, and I mean POORING the feed to them for TWO years, as opposed to 12 or 13 months.  I think it will take a pretty good, OLD holstein to rival a low percentage British/ high percentage Cont. steer in REA.  6 or 7 dollar corn pretty much puts a limit to that.

Those Holstein steers will finish in the same amount of time if fed right.  And by fed right I mean a calf-fed finishing ration.   When fed high corn diets, Holstein steers usually will grade Choice at 1,050 to 1,200 pounds.


http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1443&context=extensionhist&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dcalf%2520fed%2520finishing%2520holstein%2520%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D3%26ved%3D0CFgQFjAC%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fdigitalcommons.unl.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1443%2526context%253Dextensionhist%26ei%3DHjWrT-qTC6Ka2gXskP3cDA%26usg%3DAFQjCNFAFY-CBoHEPXoOfm9oojYqJoW9WA%26sig2%3D0_D8LzmwgIJyFH4xT6RafQ#search=%22calf%20fed%20finishing%20holstein%22

didn't look at the link YET--

but will that 11-1200 lb HOL steer hit YG 2 or 3?  Or even better yet 1? 

 

[nate53]

Why is a YG1 or YG2 better than a YG3?  There is no dock for 3's and ideally the longer you feed them the higher quality grade.  We've had some YG1 Prime's but not very many.  I would also say that the ultimate feedlot steer wouldn't be choice, it woud be high prime and tender, preferably in the least amount of time.  But I don't think anything can do that at 12 or 13 months at least not right now, 14- 16 months sure. 
1. Shorty X Angus is what we are using to make replacements.
2. Herford X Angus - this is an exceptional cross which makes really good cows and sometimes they even get premiums over the blacks.  If I had to knock them it would be becauce of the white faces and the increased eye trouble.
3. Charloais would be the ideal breed to put on these females but will they grade prime?  (they should diffenitely have lbs)
4. I've always liked beefmasters as well but from the little bit (few head) I've seen they don't grade good enough. 
5. Simmy don't really know enough about them, but they look good.

One of our neighbor's feeds out holstein bottle calves and needless to say none of them are 11-1200lbs (think bigger) when they go to the grid!

 

[Red Cow Relocators]

I recentlyu saw a pen of 1/2 Red Angus 1/2 Fleckvieh Simmentals. They were an exceptional looking set of cattle that appeared to be very easy feeding. I don't know how they will grade when they hit the rail but they sure looked the part. RCR

 

[r.n.reed]

A steer that can gain most efficiently and achieve a high quality grade with out having to be on feed for an extended amount of time is the winner.I recently had my replacement heifers scanned.They were raised on a total roughage diet.Avg.age 346 days rump fat .23 rib fat .19 imf 4.87.One of the standouts was a 7.40 at 332 days.ALL linebred Shorthorns.

 

[Shorthorns4us]

Of course I have to vote in favor of anything with Shorthorn in it!!

In my area I see several feeders getting really excited about the Red Angus/Simmental crosses and getting the red Simmi-- so that the lot is full of solid reds
I am a big supporter of the Shorthorn/ Red Angus cross-- the carcass data and carcasses that I have seen here are awesome
I have also seen people trying the Shorthorn/Simmi cross and coming up with some really good heifers for replacements and feeder steers.

Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time looking at some groups of black cattle/calves and figuring out exactly what their base breed might be-- Angus, Simmi, Maine--????
My neighbor across the fence is a anything black/Charolais cross guy--

I'm not against any of these crosses or breeds-- just encouraging everyone to try some Shorthorn-- once you try it, you will like it.
Emily

 

[garybob]

At least you guys are considering thing from an informed perspective, regarding your recommendations, as well as thoughts on the original question being presented.

Here is the perplexing quandary in my part of the world....

Let's say my friend, who has a mixed herd of cows, has an older cow that is half Hereford and half Holstein. Black Whiteface. He breeds her to a Limousin bull. The calf comes out either solid black or BWF, because the Limmy Bull is black.
In another pasture,Roy has an older, proven Angus bull. Unfortunately, this Angus bull is a red carrier. 10-15% of the calves are red, no matter what the breed of cow.To someone retaining ownership, this many red calves would suit them,as well as the feedlots and packers they deal with.

Now comes in the weird part.....at a well-run, successful Sale Barn....
The Limmy-sired calf brings $1.97/lb, while the red calves, although Angus-sired, and out of cows that are part Angus as well, at the same weight (625lbs.), only fetch $1.73 per pound.

WTF?????
A black calf with NO Angus in him at all, whatsoever, is valued higher than a red calf that is at least 5/8, or maybe even 3/4 Angus!!!!!

GB

 

[cornish]

At least you guys are considering thing from an informed perspective, regarding your recommendations, as well as thoughts on the original question being presented.

Here is the perplexing quandary in my part of the world....

Let's say my friend, who has a mixed herd of cows, has an older cow that is half Hereford and half Holstein. Black Whiteface. He breeds her to a Limousin bull. The calf comes out either solid black or BWF, because the Limmy Bull is black.
In another pasture,Roy has an older, proven Angus bull. Unfortunately, this Angus bull is a red carrier. 10-15% of the calves are red, no matter what the breed of cow.To someone retaining ownership, this many red calves would suit them,as well as the feedlots and packers they deal with.

Now comes in the weird part.....at a well-run, successful Sale Barn....
The Limmy-sired calf brings $1.97/lb, while the red calves, although Angus-sired, and out of cows that are part Angus as well, at the same weight (625lbs.), only fetch $1.73 per pound.

WTF?????
A black calf with NO Angus in him at all, whatsoever, is valued higher than a red calf that is at least 5/8, or maybe even 3/4 Angus!!!!!

GB

I've got plenty of those mixed and unmatched herds in my area as well.  That situation really puts the importance of having homo black bulls-- regardless of what breed they are. 

I don't see the discount coming in on smokes-- as much as I do with reds and coloreds.  I have seen some smokes bring more than tha blacks-- b/c that is a breed distiction. 

 

[garybob]

So........in other words, color matters more than feed conversion, ADG, Yield and/or Quality grade? Just doesn't make sense to me.

GB

 

[cornish]

So........in other words, color matters more than feed conversion, ADG, Yield and/or Quality grade? Just doesn't make sense to me.

GB

Color matters to those selling feeder calves, not to those with retained ownership- you can't have it both ways.  Color also matters to those trying to hit in on CAB, or CHB.

In your scenario above-- you said that your neighbor's are selling their calves as feeders-=-  Feeder calf sellers don't give a tinker's fart about what that calf is going to look like hanging-- cuz if they did-- then they'd find a way to feed them out and market towards some kind of a grid buying system. 

I've yet to find more than a couple people who sell feeder calves-- that focus on carcass traits-- instead of 1-black- 2-WW and 3-BW; probably in that order.  The same goes for those who feed cattle--but opposite.

 

[RankeCattleCo]

Still going to go with a holstein-
We get holstein steers to 1350 to 1600 lbs. (Depending on size of frame) in 16 months on 50%corn silage, 35% Hi Moisture shell corn and 15% Corn gluten feed pellets.  AND THEY ALL GRADE PRIME OR CHOICE.  On no hormones or implants what so ever, I guarantee it.  With holsteins you get larger t-bones and roasts.  I'll attach an articles for people to read.

Comparison of Holstein and Angus/Simmi cross steaks:
http://jas.fass.org/content/69/12/4866.full.pdf

 

[RankeCattleCo]

OTHER FACTS- (First two from a blog, rest from university studies)

Holstein are rated at #2 as far as taste goes in a leading blind taste test of beef. Jersey is #1. But for us dairy farmers we are not surprised at all. 

Over the years we raised several different breeds of cattle for meat, and by far the best tasting cows were the holsteins, or a holstein cross.

Steaks from Holstein steers generally were superior to those from Simmental x Angus steers.

There is no justification in the meat trade for price discrimination against carcasses of Holstein steers on the basis of ribeye steak appearance and palatability.

Dairy steers were reported to have higher quality grades than native beef breed cattle in the 2000 National Beef Quality Audit.  Their quality grade advantage was due to higher marbling (i.e. intramuscular fat) scores.

RCC

 

[cornish]

OTHER FACTS- (First two from a blog, rest from university studies)

Holstein are rated at #2 as far as taste goes in a leading blind taste test of beef. Jersey is #1. But for us dairy farmers we are not surprised at all. 

Over the years we raised several different breeds of cattle for meat, and by far the best tasting cows were the holsteins, or a holstein cross.

Steaks from Holstein steers generally were superior to those from Simmental x Angus steers.

There is no justification in the meat trade for price discrimination against carcasses of Holstein steers on the basis of ribeye steak appearance and palatability.

Dairy steers were reported to have higher quality grades than native beef breed cattle in the 2000 National Beef Quality Audit.  Their quality grade advantage was due to higher marbling (i.e. intramuscular fat) scores.

RCC

I agree 100% on all facts- on both of your posts... but I don't with the one about Holstein steers cutting larger T-bones with more meat in them. .Maybe larger b/c of bone- but not sq inches of meat.  Ever compare a hol t-bone with that of an Angus?  The angus will be round, the hol will be flat on the outside.  It might be longer- but it's not as round and 'full'

after 800 lbs, jersey's are too marbled to succesfully go through a grinder.  they just want to ball and mush up from the fat content.

I've always heard the more butter fat in the milk-- the more intramuscular fat in the body/ meat...  I tend to agree. 

 

[clubcalve]

In my opinion, with how the world population is growing and with more and more people saying that the inefficiency of raising meat products, I think that one of the most important aspect of cattle feeding should be turning towards efficiency. Not only with feed efficiency but also carcass efficiency. If some of you have found ways of getting your Holstein steers to selling weight in time that is great.Although I have eaten Holstein before (it is good) (thumbsup), I have also seen the amount of waste that comes off of one in the locker plant. Also to figure into feeding Holstein cattle is the amount of feed energy that is going to develop all that bone that the Holstein breed has (can't do anything about that). I think many feed lots should consider feeding out animals that have that medium small frame that can handle a fast growing carcass. Meat packers don't need or want all of the bone that these larger framed cattle have. The Ideal feeder steer will have different characteristics for every feed lot manager out there. All of these different opinions are what make the cattle industry so interesting and fun to be apart of.

                                      Silent Hollow Farm

 

[aj]

The thing is that modern milk cows won't survive on an all roughage diet. Is feed effiency different........as far as pasture......vs a high energy diet? Or do the same cattle excel at both. To me that question need answered.

 

[RyanChandler]

Of course I have to vote in favor of anything with Shorthorn in it!!

In my area I see several feeders getting really excited about the Red Angus/Simmental crosses and getting the red Simmi-- so that the lot is full of solid reds
I am a big supporter of the Shorthorn/ Red Angus cross-- the carcass data and carcasses that I have seen here are awesome
I have also seen people trying the Shorthorn/Simmi cross and coming up with some really good heifers for replacements and feeder steers.

Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time looking at some groups of black cattle/calves and figuring out exactly what their base breed might be-- Angus, Simmi, Maine--????
My neighbor across the fence is a anything black/Charolais cross guy--

I'm not against any of these crosses or breeds-- just encouraging everyone to try some Shorthorn-- once you try it, you will like it.
Emily

EXCEPT for Galloways, which should be easily recognizable,  Angus is the base breed for all black breeds.  You cannot retain the Angus color and phenotype w/o retaining their genotype as well.  I don't see why so many don't understand CAB. It's all about forecasting and budgeting.  Black cattle, in general, grade more similarly than non black cattle, in general.  I don't even think they think black is "better" just more predictable.  Don't think the buyers don't recognize the Apple ass on the black Gelbviehs or square hips on a black limosine and dock them for if. Why are they being docked?? Because they know those traits are associated with breeds of cattle that are known to have quality grade problems.. why assume additional risk for no additional reward??  The calves that are really bringing the premiums are not only black, but they have the phenotypical characteristics associated with the Angus breed- small square head, short ears, black hide, hatchet ass, medium bone. 

 

[Shorthorns4us]

Hey XBAR-- your description of being able to identify Angus cattle in a group--especially the "hatchet-ass" shape reminds me of a conversation I had this week
with one of my friends that has been in the Black Angus business for a very long time-- he was talking about what types of Black Angus cattle some of the breeders
are switching or breeding to lately with going back to the smaller frames.  He has a daughter that shows their cattle too and we were talking about a recent show and
he is concerned about the size.  Is the Black Angus trend going back to the smaller "60's" framed cattle?  He was also telling me that he was having a hard time finding
AI sires that he was excited about using this year.  Any opinions are welcome
I kind of worry about the hatchet ass shape myself-- I like to see a nice more square shaped butt over the top, but not extreme.  When I think hatchet ass, I think narrow, narrow, narrow.
Emily

 

[aj]

Does a square butt have any real world value? I was told that the peaked assed Angus win the carcass contest everytime. I don't know.

 

[HAB]

Does a square butt have any real world value? I was told that the peaked assed Angus win the carcass contest everytime. I don't know.

It does in pounds of burger and round steak.

typically the higher marbling catle are flatter muscled