website

[TJ]

Just like with any advertising, traffic volume is the key.     

This can be true, but usually...its not. The essence of good advertising is that not only people see it, but that it strikes a chord with them that makes them react to it. Thousands of people drive by hundreds of billboards every day, but because they don't connect with billboard's message, they don't remember it and they don't buy. With a website, its even more difficult - Instead of just situating your advertising where someone might happen to go by, you have to actively draw them to it. That's tough!

Being good at advertising is knowing your product, your image and most importantly, your audience. In advertising-speak, it is good to think about your "unique selling propositon." If you end up doing your website yourself, thinking about this will help you. Who are you selling to? How old are they and where do they live? What about your product will they find appealing? Having a page geared towards a club calf audience if you aim to sell 200 commercial bulls will do you absolutely no good. Having a page with tiny type if your audience is over 60 won't do you any good either. Having a page with an extremely long loading times will turn off more of your audience than it brings in. This is likely why you find web pages done by professionals such as Ranch House Designs, Stephanie Cronin and others appealing. These people have done the research and they make money off their ability to solve communications problems for their clients. Simply being able to piece together a web page is not enough. Connection with the audience, not traffic alone, is what translates into sales. As an advertising genius once said, "if you invest in your brand from the beginning, it will pay dividends forever.'

This doesn't mean you have to spend a tonne and go through the roof with your budget, but sometimes a little piece of mind is worth alot. The brilliant thing about advertising is that some of the best, most memorable campaigns were done on a shoe-string budget. If you get it right the first time, it can be the easiest sell you never had to make.

I don't disagree with any of that either...   In an ideal world, high traffic + a superbly packaged website is what counts.  I have been around & actually worked for some of the best marketers around.  I have watched them closely & I have learned a lot from them over the years.  The key to marketing is high traffic + a superb presentation.    

I hope that sometime shortly after March 16 that my site will look like a professional designed it... with quick loading pages, flashy content, etc.  But, my site is in the embryo stage right now & it's not going to impress very many people in it's current state.  HOWEVER, I am currently sold out (except for semen & a handful of fall calves that I haven't weaned yet), I have more prospective customers than I have cattle (I am currently selling cattle for other people), I am & I will be real busy until after March 16 with higher priorities (I've got a 30 minute radio program tomorrow morning that I haven't finished preparing for yet) and we are still in the learning/experimental stage (we just purchased several new programs that we currently trying to master), so I am not overly concerned about rushing to finish my own site... I've rushed enough on it already (too much actually).  It's fine for now, but it's not fine for the long term.  So all of my design talk is about 3-5 weeks premature.  However, when I am ready, I will be back with the goods for the critics to analyze.

I more or less designed this AD... even though I hired it "put together".  I took all the pics (except the Tiger's Eye pic & a Lowline friend of mine took that one), including the background, laid everything out the way that I wanted it, explained exactly what I wanted & had them tweak it at least 3 times after the original.  Once I master these new programs, this is the type of quality product that I will be striving to achieve, incuding fast loading pages.  The designers that you mentioned, may be able to do a better job than me, but this is type of quality is plenty good enough for me, cost less money & I got a lot of positive feedback from Lowline breeders, so it did it's job well.  Here it is...  

 

 

[TJ]

It looks like to me the keys to traffic may be 1.Being googled easily and 2.having links.    The google deal is interesting to me(almost scary). It is amazing what you can google up. I googled durham reds and got 250,000 results. There are a couple of durham red breeders that googled in the first page of results. How did they do that? Is it guerilla marketing? I would think naming a ranch would have marketing issues. How many diamond d outfits are there out there. How do you differentiate your product? How do you do phrases to get your site googled. Will it change over the years? Could you put a bussiness card size ad in your breed magazine with only your website address on it. I think you could. You could get your web site address out there and then let the website do your sales pitch. Marketing can be a honorable proffession. I once heard Jim Leachman do a KLA program. He said teachers, preachers,  and mothers are marketers. They try and market ideas and concepts. Interesting topic I think.

Supposedly, the Google search engine puts a lot of emphasis on the amount of time that a website has exisited.  Reportedly, how many hits, how long people stay on your site, etc., could also effect the rankings.  I've heard that there are several other key factors too, but the bottom line is that it's harder to get a quick, high Google ranking than it is to get one on Yahoo's search engine.  MSN is another one that is really tricky.  Plus, you can actually do things that you would think would actually help your search engine ranking & they will actually end up hurting it... this is probably done to prevent "fake spam" sites from dominating the rankings & it probably helps to ensure that the legits sites get the better rankings.   

My rankings for different search phrases go up & down every few days in Google & I think that it is because my site is fairly new & it currently lacks key content on a few pages.   That is the ONLY reason why I currently have thrown together some really quick info on a few of my pages... because the higher that I am ranked by Google right now, the higher that I will be ranked by them when I actually finish & completely redesign my site.  If it wasn't for that, I would wait until I was completely ready before publishing the whole thing. 

I agree with you 100% about running a business card AD with your websites address in it.  If people look at your site, they will be looking at several full page AD's & then some.  We pay the magazine extra money unless you have plenty of it?  Lots of other ways to get real cheap or free links too, but the business card sized AD, in a National or a Regional publication, is a real good idea, especially if you are on a tight budget.   Getting a link on your breed association site is GOLD, IMHO. 

 

[DL]

TJ - now this may be crazy - and maybe you had a reason - but why are the 4 calves in your ad looking out and the bulls looking to the left? When I see a cow looking like that it draws my eye in the direction they are looking - so with my cows I f they all look to the left I want to know what's going on. So in your ad the caves draw my eye to the outside of the page - so if this was in a magazine I would look at the next page and the bulls draw my eye to the left  - so if you were on the right I would look at the ad on the left page...for the way I see things (could be the outlier here) I would have had the bulls looking to the center (at each ohter) and the calves also looking in toward the inside calves - you don't want to send people off your page

SIQ - as always a useful and thoughtful post!

BCCC - check your PMs

 

[justme]

I am with agreement with DL.  I use edje for my business and I truely believe that if I made it myself and wasn't tied to a "host" like theres, I would never have had the hits or business like I do from it.  With edje, I have NEVER paid for an update.  I can update as much as I like and they always do it quick and are very professional.  With the money I spend on my website with them I cann't complain one bit.  The first week up it paid for itself for the quarter.  (Sand J cattle Co. were my first online customers lol)

REALLY consider linking your site to a "host" either showsteers, clubcalves, or edje.  They all allow you to make your own for a discounted price.  I seriously think its a necessity to get the coverage.  This is just my opinion as a business person, take it for what its worth.  Feel free to check mine out at www.funkystitches.com and contact me if you have any questions.

 

[cattlejunky]

I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations on where to go for free website hosting.  I know how to design the page but am looking to get it up on the web for free, rather than having to pay for a domain name.

go to microsoft office live.  You get your domain name and can set your website up for $1.00.  You have the option to pay a higher fee and do a little more.  I just started out and have been happy.  My site is not fancy, but the price was right.

 

[JSchroeder]

aj, your search engine question is one that people overlook all the time and very few people stay on top of.

What types of search terms are you trying to rank for?  There are a lot of terms you can target that will drive traffic to your site without going head to head with the bigger sites at the top of Google.

If you are trying to rank for terms like "cattle", "show cattle", "show steers", or one of the big terms; welcome to the big leagues.  It's a pretty hard fight to get there and very few small ranch sites are able to stay on the first page for more than a month or two.  Thompson Show Steers is the only one I know of but they aren't your typical ranch site.

 

[shortyisqueen]

The designers that you mentioned, may be able to do a better job than me, but this is type of quality is plenty good enough for me, cost less money & I got a lot of positive feedback from Lowline breeders, so it did it's job well.

TJ, Nice ad. I'm not knocking your skill at designing by any means...I'm just saying I wouldn't hire a dentist to calve out my cows or a construction worker to clean my teeth...A good idea is worth a thousand good layouts. I just received an Angus magazine that's three quarters of an inch thick - I flipped through it this morning it but I now don't remember any of the ads...they were all 'just ads' with a bunch of pictures...I either have amnesia or all of those advertisers just paid well over $900 for me to not remember their ads.

A brilliant campaign below by Mini....The layout sure isn't much, but it doesn't need to be. Obviously, its not quite the right target market for cattle people, but it certainly would get noticed... 

 

[ZNT]

TJ, I think your are off to a really good start with your website.  I admire the time you are taking to do it right, and also the pride you take in doing it yourself.  I am sure you are like many of us and do not have a bunch of disposable income to just pay someone to do something we can do ourselves. Our family gets alot of pride out of doing things ourselves and not just hiring it out because it's easier.  Rarely are you able to get that truely "personal" touch that is "you" when you just pay someone to interpret your ideas.  At the end, it is still a design made by another person.

I can't wait to see your finished product TJ.  You are doing a great job!  Keep up the good work and good luck.

 

[ZNT]

The designers that you mentioned, may be able to do a better job than me, but this is type of quality is plenty good enough for me, cost less money & I got a lot of positive feedback from Lowline breeders, so it did it's job well.

TJ, Nice ad. I'm not knocking your skill at designing by any means...I'm just saying I wouldn't hire a dentist to calve out my cows or a construction worker to clean my teeth...A good idea is worth a thousand good layouts. I just received an Angus magazine that's three quarters of an inch thick - I flipped through it this morning it but I now don't remember any of the ads...they were all 'just ads' with a bunch of pictures...I either have amnesia or all of those advertisers just paid well over $900 for me to not remember their ads.

A brilliant campaign below by Mini....The layout sure isn't much, but it doesn't need to be. Obviously, its not quite the right target market for cattle people, but it certainly would get noticed...   

So in that Angus magazine the was 3/4 inch thick, how many of those $900 ad's that you could not remember were made by so-called professionals.  Just because you pay someone, doesn't guarentee a great ad campain.

 

[LinZ]

We use EDJE ..They are very customer friendly as well as quick in setting up the website and using the ideas we already had. They make any updates you need very quickly. www.sunflowerranchsimmentals.com

LinZ

 

[shortyisqueen]

ZNT, I'm pretty picky about this, I suppose, but I consider many of the people who are hired by 'professional' magazines in the agriculture industry to be pretty amateur. They can run a computer and know how to open photoshop, and are willing to work cheaper than what most desigers ask from their agencies, so they are hired without ever really being trained in advertising. I think you have to be pretty selective about who you choose, ask for credentials, projects they've worked on, and a PORTFOLIO. If they truly are professionals, they will be able to find a way to represent you that is true to both your farm and your goals. A decent layout does not an advertising campaign make.

I think I've officially taken this thread way off topic. Sorry!!!

 

[shorthorns r us]

ZNT, I'm pretty picky about this, I suppose, but I consider many of the people who are hired by 'professional' magazines in the agriculture industry to be pretty amateur. They can run a computer and know how to open photoshop, and are willing to work cheaper than what most desigers ask from their agencies, so they are hired without ever really being trained in advertising. I think you have to be pretty selective about who you choose, ask for credentials, projects they've worked on, and a PORTFOLIO. If they truly are professionals, they will be able to find a way to represent you that is true to both your farm and your goals. A decent layout does not an advertising campaign make.

I think I've officially taken this thread way off topic. Sorry!!!

are you part of the advertising world and/or a professional?

 

[shortyisqueen]

I do have a Bachelor of Design and was very lucky to be taught by senior creative directors from some of the more prominent Canadian advertising agencies. I also work at an agency and have worked on branding for companies such as Sharps Audio-Visual, DMG World Media, Meristem, Shell Canada and Chum Television (Razer Network). One of the very first campaigns I did for Shell helped a little over $5.6 million change hands, so that was pretty special for me. As for my 'professional' status, I think I would need to show you my portfolio first and let you be the judge...

I apologize if I sound overly sensitive (or egotistical even) about the topic of 'just anyone' doing advertising. Since I have put a great deal of thought and work into the field, for me, it is the same as someone saying 'just anyone' can raise a great show steer or a herd of legendary brood matrons or 'just anyone' can map the PHA gene. I think everyone has their specialty/talent. You might try to do it better than them, but it might be awful hard. JMHO.

 

[TJ]

TJ - now this may be crazy - and maybe you had a reason - but why are the 4 calves in your ad looking out and the bulls looking to the left? When I see a cow looking like that it draws my eye in the direction they are looking - so with my cows I f they all look to the left I want to know what's going on. So in your ad the caves draw my eye to the outside of the page - so if this was in a magazine I would look at the next page and the bulls draw my eye to the left  - so if you were on the right I would look at the ad on the left page...for the way I see things (could be the outlier here) I would have had the bulls looking to the center (at each ohter) and the calves also looking in toward the inside calves - you don't want to send people off your page

SIQ - as always a useful and thoughtful post!

BCCC - check your PMs

DL... I don't think that is a crazy question at all!  Actually, I think that it is a very good observation & you make a really good point.  I appreciate you pointing that out, because  critiques are one of the best ways to learn.   


With that said, let me point out a couple of things about that AD... 

1st... Doc Holliday's co-owner & I were running another full page AD & it was geared specifically toward Doc Holliday semen sales.

2nd... During the whole design process, I knew that this AD was going to be placed on a page right beside the Doc Holliday AD.  I did it that way (side by side AD's) so that Doc Holliday would get double exposure (we did increase sales) & so that my own herd would get double exposure too (that worked too). 

3rd... We considered arranging the pics to look in, looking out, random placement, mirrored images, etc.  The designer who was helping me wanted to use a random pattern, but I honestly thought that the final draft was the best looking of the bunch.     

4th, My 1st impression was that people would look off the page... I actually looked off the page when I 1st saw it.  So, you are right on with your observation.  However, since it looked like the best arrangement to me & since I was going to have a Full page AD on the page right beside it with all the key info, I could live with someone looking at the other page. 

Also, I am 100% convienced that glancing at most pictures is almost always makes them look better than if someone actually stares at them & then they start to mentally nit pick the pictures apart.  All cattle have faults & if there eyes instantly start wondering away, it will be a natural way to keep them from staring & picking up on those faults.  Whether it's a commercial with an attractive model or a National Champion Bull in a cattle AD, a quick glance is almost always going to leave a person with a more favorable impression than if they can stare & start fault finding.  At least, that is MHO.  So, my thoughts were that if they just glanced at my calf pics & then focused in on the Doc AD & it's info, I'd hit a homerun. 

As you can see, I had several motives for doing what I did... I have a really BAD habbit of "overthinking" at times!  However, I'm not saying that it was the best method or if it had been done differently that it wouldn't have been just as good or better, I am just sharing the reasons why & the strategy behind them. 

With that said, I've never heard any comments about our Doc Holliday AD, except for people telling me that they really liked the way he looks in the picture.  However, I did hear several positive comments about this AD... vitually everybody who called commented positively about it.  Bottom line... somebody could've probably done it better, but it was cost effective & it worked. 



$250-$350 for a multi page website for 2 years (updates included), that is similar in design quality to the AD that I posted (maybe better), is also quick loading, that will be set up for the search engines to easily find it & that will save people over $100 if they do it themselves through Yahoo & several hundred over many web designers... is a service that I'd like to offer in the near future (although I could do one right now, if someone badly wanted it done)... more so for the enjoyment than the cash.   

           

 

 

[TJ]

ZNT, I'm pretty picky about this, I suppose, but I consider many of the people who are hired by 'professional' magazines in the agriculture industry to be pretty amateur. They can run a computer and know how to open photoshop, and are willing to work cheaper than what most desigers ask from their agencies, so they are hired without ever really being trained in advertising. I think you have to be pretty selective about who you choose, ask for credentials, projects they've worked on, and a PORTFOLIO. If they truly are professionals, they will be able to find a way to represent you that is true to both your farm and your goals. A decent layout does not an advertising campaign make.

I think I've officially taken this thread way off topic. Sorry!!!

I'm an amateur (Although, I have completed a bachelors program in Organizational Leadership), but a very successful National Sales Director of a large company (over 33 states & several foriegn countries) & his wife, who owned her own Advertising/Design Firm, told me on more than 1 occassion, that they would rather have me working for them, than their "highly educated, big city, hired help" working in those companies.  I actually did manage their cattle herd & handled a large portion of the promotion of those cattle for 5 1/2 of the approximately 6 1/2 years that they owned cattle.  They were Advertising Pro's (taught me a lot) & they were about as successful, as successful gets, yet they trusted an "amateur" to do the type of work that they were well trainned & very skilled at.

Kit Pharo was an amateur when he started out selling 20 bulls per year, with a basic newletter that reached maybe a few hundred people.  Now almost everyone in the cattle business knows who he is (they may not like him or his opinions, but they know the name) & he sells several hundred bulls per year, usually at a $3,000 or better average.           

I agree about checking portfolio's, particularly if they have done a lot of work & if you are going to pay the "big bucks".  However, just because someone doesn't have a portfolio doesn't mean that they aren't as capable or more so than someone else... even the so-called "pros" had to start somewhere!!  Sometimes being an amateur can actually be a really good thing.  Amateurs are often more passionate, more driven & more likely to go the extra mile than the same person who has been doing the same thing for years.  Not always, but sometimes.  And if an amateur can give somewhat similar results for 1/2 the price, I would go with the amateur & then watch them like a hawk. 

Just my opinion... feel free to disagree.   

   

 

[TJ]

TJ, I think your are off to a really good start with your website.  I admire the time you are taking to do it right, and also the pride you take in doing it yourself.  I am sure you are like many of us and do not have a bunch of disposable income to just pay someone to do something we can do ourselves. Our family gets alot of pride out of doing things ourselves and not just hiring it out because it's easier.  Rarely are you able to get that truely "personal" touch that is "you" when you just pay someone to interpret your ideas.  At the end, it is still a design made by another person.

I can't wait to see your finished product TJ.  You are doing a great job!  Keep up the good work and good luck.

Thanks!  It's got a ways to go, but I hope to have it the way that I want it fairly soon.  I'll post a link when I get it the way I want it or at least when I get it real close. 

BTW, I just googled your website & IMHO, it looks pretty good & it is more proof to me that you don't have to pay an arm & a leg to hire an expensive web design firm just to end up with a nice website.

If people are happy with EDJE & other designers, that is great!  I think they do a pretty good job.  I just think that I will be able to do a similar job for less money is all. 

Some people have the money to drive brand new, fully loaded Hummer's, but my fully loaded Dodge 2500 quad cab has been awful good truck.  And even though it may not be as flashy to some people, I thought it was pretty sharp when I bought it, it was about 1/2 the price of a Hummer & it suits my needs better too.       

 

[shorthorns r us]

I do have a Bachelor of Design and was very lucky to be taught by senior creative directors from some of the more prominent Canadian advertising agencies. I also work at an agency and have worked on branding for companies such as Sharps Audio-Visual, DMG World Media, Meristem, Shell Canada and Chum Television (Razer Network). One of the very first campaigns I did for Shell helped a little over $5.6 million change hands, so that was pretty special for me. As for my 'professional' status, I think I would need to show you my portfolio first and let you be the judge...

I apologize if I sound overly sensitive (or egotistical even) about the topic of 'just anyone' doing advertising. Since I have put a great deal of thought and work into the field, for me, it is the same as someone saying 'just anyone' can raise a great show steer or a herd of legendary brood matrons or 'just anyone' can map the PHA gene. I think everyone has their specialty/talent. You might try to do it better than them, but it might be awful hard. JMHO.

very impressive.  did u do the website for your cattle operation?

 

[aj]

From a guerilla marketing standpoint....won't newspaper articles,dui convictions, and things like that come up on google. If the paper is large enough. I know one time I joined the angus association 30 years ago cause I bought 1 angus heifer and the aaa sent a press release out on how I had joined the assc. and was a dedicated member and everthing else. I made the county paper on that one. Are there other ways to make the google? Does anyone else know a way to get googled. ;D

 

[dori36]

i need a website. Any suggestions on people to go thru? Is it stupid to try to do it yourself?

C.O.W.S.  "Cowboy Oriented Websites".  They did mine and many other big  cattle breeders.  They host and design.  With my hosting I also get the most amazing set of statistics.  Not just how  many people have h it the site, but how many have opened which pictures, which pages were hit, where the looker found my website url, what page they were reading first and last, etc., etc.  If you're going to use the site to enhance your business, you need to be able to quantify all that info to keep improving.  You can visit their website at www.thecattle.net.  You can view 100's of sites they have done and check 'em out to see if you like the looks.  If you don't want to be updating the site yourself, they offer an annual package that includes updates and hosting.  Good luck!  A website does tons for business if it's professional and shows what you want others to see.

 

[TJ]

i need a website. Any suggestions on people to go thru? Is it stupid to try to do it yourself?

C.O.W.S.  "Cowboy Oriented Websites".  They did mine and many other big  cattle breeders.  They host and design.  With my hosting I also get the most amazing set of statistics.  Not just how  many people have h it the site, but how many have opened which pictures, which pages were hit, where the looker found my website url, what page they were reading first and last, etc., etc.  If you're going to use the site to enhance your business, you need to be able to quantify all that info to keep improving.  You can visit their website at www.thecattle.net.  You can view 100's of sites they have done and check 'em out to see if you like the looks.  If you don't want to be updating the site yourself, they offer an annual package that includes updates and hosting.  Good luck!  A website does tons for business if it's professional and shows what you want others to see.

Dori, "Cowboy Oriented Websites" does seem to be a really good web hosting & design outfit.  I think that Sharidon Farms also uses them & IMHO, your website & that website are 2 of the best "Lowline" websites that I have seen.  I don't know what they charge, but they do a quality job.

I also think that Dori makes a very good point about web stats.  Web stats can be very important in developing an ongoing strategy and you can make minor tweaks or major changes accordingly.   I know that we are using them & will continue to use them.  Here are a few of the things that I have learned...

***I know that only around 2% of the people who have accessed my site are using dial up. 

***I know that several people were using Mozilla Foxfire.  I don't use Foxfire, but since a significant number of people were viewing my page using the Foxfire browser, we decided that we better check out my page using that browser.  What we discovered is that some of my text was being displayed at a smaller font size on Foxfire than it was being displayed on Internet Explorer.  So, yesterday afternoon we were able to fix that problem on the homepage. 

***I know that 40+ have visited my site coming from a link on Steer Planet.  I just put a link on Cattle Today about 7 - 10 days ago & I only have 5 hits from that site, but that's at least 1 hit every other day.  Google has been really good to me & I had 60+ visits 2 or 3 Saturdays ago who typed in the phrase "raising lowlines".  I don't have to guess, I know exactly how most people find my site.

***Like Dori mentioned, I know which pages are visited the most, how long they spent viewing each page, the order that they visited each page, what links they clicked on, what search phrases they used to find my site, etc., etc., etc..     

***I know that 4 people have already visited my site over 100 times looking for updates.

Marketing cattle isn't rocket science, but it can only help if you know exactly what is working & what is not.  IMHO, web stats are a very helpful tool that many people probably don't even consider when making marketing decisions.   

Maybe I'm not as amateur at this as I thought that I was.