website

[Jill]

That's interesting, I didn't realize you could get stats on that type of stuff, it's almost scary what they can do with technology!

 

[dori36]

If you do your own site...

1 - Sign up with Google Analytics (http://www.google.com/analytics).  It will provide you with extremely detailed traffic information including extremely 'cool' maps showing you where your visitors are coming from.  It's free and not very hard to setup at all.

2 - Use some of the money you save to advertise your cattle with Adwords.

Agreed!  I subscribe to Google Adwords, Adsense, and the analytics.  And, my website hosts also provide an analysis that I've never seen the likes of before.  You get what you pay for and having a competent and experienced web designer is well worth the money.  Another very important consideration is does the person who designs and submits it have the time to do updates for you quickly if you're not going to do them yourself?  If you decide to change something on your site, you probably want it out there NOW.  Waiting around for someone for whom web design and hosting is a hobby can make your site very much "old news".  Also, just curious, have you gotten your url yet?

 

[dori36]

I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations on where to go for free website hosting.  I know how to design the page but am looking to get it up on the web for free, rather than having to pay for a domain name.

There are quite a few free hosting "opportunities'  Just Google Free Website Hosting and you' ll find some.  Beware, though, that nothing is "really" free.  Most will require you to allow their choice of advertisers across the top of your site.  Some even put pop up windows there.  Just beyond annoying when someone just wants to know what 'you' have to offer and an ad for, say, hot guys pops up across their screen!  Again, pay the $ and get the best.  Free isn't necessarily free.  BTW, domain names are considerably less than $100 each.  I have 4 now  (Genesislivestock.com, Lowlinecattle.com, Wyominglowlinecattle.com, Lowlinecattleforsale.com) and each one costs me about $30/year to keep and originally cost me $35 to buy.  The last one I got, www.lowlinecattleforsale.com, only cost me $22 because my web designers/hosts got it for me!  Go to Register.com and check it out!  Don't know why you wouldn't want your own url?

 

[the_resa86]

I do not have a URL yet.  The website is for our junior organization so we are trying to find ways to do it as cheap as possible.  Like I said the design and updates are no problem as I am a communications major with an emphasis on graphic design and have done some web design.  I am just trying to figure out how to get a site hosted for as cheap as possible.  Thanks for the input.

 

[dori36]

It looks like to me the keys to traffic may be 1.Being googled easily and 2.having links.    The google deal is interesting to me(almost scary). It is amazing what you can google up. I googled durham reds and got 250,000 results. There are a couple of durham red breeders that googled in the first page of results. How did they do that? Is it guerilla marketing? I would think naming a ranch would have marketing issues. How many diamond d outfits are there out there. How do you differentiate your product? How do you do phrases to get your site googled. Will it change over the years? Could you put a bussiness card size ad in your breed magazine with only your website address on it. I think you could. You could get your web site address out there and then let the website do your sales pitch. Marketing can be a honorable proffession. I once heard Jim Leachman do a KLA program. He said teachers, preachers,  and mothers are marketers. They try and market ideas and concepts. Interesting topic I think.

I'll try to do "Google Adwords 101" in less than 3 pages here:  If you go to any Google page, you'll see all the results of whatever you searched for on the main/left side of the page, and "Sponsored Ads" on the right side.  Sometime, there is a "Sponsored Ad" at the top of the regular listings, lightly highlighted in pale color, too.  When you are a Google Adwords user there are a couple of things you can do:  1.  You create your campaign by specifying what words you think most searchers for your product will use to find your product.  You can specify as many as you want but overlapping words (like me using "Lowline" and "Lowlines") won't yield you more lookers, as a rule.  I think mine are, in part, Lowline, Lowline Angus, Lowline Cattle, Michigan Lowline, Lowlines for sale,  and a few more I can't remember right now.  I use Google analytics to continually monitor which words are yielding results and I modify the search words frequently baased on which ones work.

2.  Then, to be sure I'm at the top of the sponsored ads, and many times it also lands me on the top of the regular list, too, when searchers click on my Sponsored Ad , I pay Google a certain amount per click.  I bid what I am willing to pay Google per day per click on my sponsored ad.  So, if one of you goes to Google looking for Lowlines, and they quickly see my highlighted ad in the Sponsored Ads section, and clicks there instead of continuing to search further, I pay whatever my bid was per click.  If the clicks in any one day exceed my maximum that I said I'd be willing to pay per day, my ad disappears until the next day so I can't go over budget.

I can use Google analytics to see exactly how many people found me using each of my search terms.  It's not hard to do with Google, but does take some time to wade through it all.  It's totally worth it, imo.  I don't use any other search engine's similar opportunity because I believe most people are searching with Google today.  And, Google runs most of Yahoo's searches anyway.  I signed up for the Google programs myself without the help of my web designer.

I also subscribe to Google Adsense which allows Google to crawl my site and place relevant ads on it.  I get paid each time someone clicks on one of those ads.  Not much being a cattle site and the ads are geared to cattle or cattle equipment, but every little bit helps!  I can only imagine what some of the heavily used sites with Google ads on them are getting paid!!  Yikes.

Hope that all made some sense!! 

 

[TJ]

You get what you pay for and having a competent and experienced web designer is well worth the money.  Another very important consideration is does the person who designs and submits it have the time to do updates for you quickly if you're not going to do them yourself?  If you decide to change something on your site, you probably want it out there NOW.  Waiting around for someone for whom web design and hosting is a hobby can make your site very much "old news". 

In many cases you do get what you pay for, but not always.  I'm obviously getting basically the same set of stats that you are.  And since my friend & I are designing my site, it's not like you have to spend a ton of money to get those stats.  Actually, I am only paying a little over $5 per month for web hosting & according to my friend who is a little more technical savvy, I could put 1,000+ pages on my site and I could probably have 1,000 visitors a day & still have plenty of bandwidth.   

I do agree about waiting, especially if you have new pics & info of animals for sale, which is why I have continually stressed in this thread that I really need to hold off until sometime between March 16 & April 1, so that I can have plenty of time to practice & totally familiarize myself with all the functions of these programs & can gain a little more experience.  Once I master everything, I can start spending a lot of that practice time on updating other sites.  I honestly think that I should be able to update my site & several other sites on a daily basis, when necessary.  Besides, if it's an urgent rush & I'm totally covered up that day, my friend lists & sells railroad items off of his website on a daily basis, so he should be able to handle the updates.  Almost all of the work that we've done on my site was completed in 30 minutes or less & that includes writing it as we were doing it & looking for pics as we were doing it, so if someones sight is already pretty well laid out, we are probably talking 10-15 minutes max & in many cases probably 5 minutes.  I ususally spend more time than that per day on Steer Planet, so that time could be sent in updates instead.   Actually, quick updates is going to be one of our main selling points!!  Between the 2 of us, I doubt that any update would ever go past 24 hours (probably be done in less than 12), except possibly during extreme circumstances. My designer was usually pretty quick, but sometimes it was 3 - 4 days before I heard from her.  With 2 of us, that should rarely happen, if ever.     

BTW, my site isn't necessarily finished due to lack of time... it's mainly not finished because we are still in the learning/experimenting stage & I am spending a good deal of my free time right now learning about all the functions of the new programs because I want to do it right.  I'd also like to have some fresh pictures, but the weather has been awful here the past few weeks.  Also, quite honestly, I have next to nothing to sell except for a handful of unweaned fall calves & I have more prospective customers than I have calves (Doc's semen is selling very well too) & I have no other sites to design except my own, so I'm in no rush.  For now, I'd rather have "under construction" on my site than a bunch of info that I will probably be changing within the next month.           

Anyway, it's obvious to me that several in this thread either don't like what I am proposing or they don't think that I am competent enough or they don't think that I will have the time or the drive or whatever other reason.  Seems like everytime I post something positive about what we are doing with my website, a post pops up with a counter punch to my positive post, whether intentional or not... (^ "hobby", "amateur", "anybody with a photoshop", etc.) ... I think that all of it should be said, but it's interesting that none of it was said until I started posting about websites & then when I began depending what we are planning to do.  But, my feelings aren't hurt & I can take it.  I know what my buddy & I can do & that's all that matters to me.  If I didn't think that we couldn't do a good job, I would've never posted a thing about web design.  Also, this is kind of like Lowlines... I know what Lowlines can do & I could care less if others make fun of them... even I did that the very 1st year that they were displayed at Denver (I think 1996 or 1997)!!     

I see a niche that we can fill & I think that I can do a real good job, sorry that a few seem to disagree, but they don't have to hire me.  I'm sure that they have great designers & get a great service, but that doesn't mean I wont come relatively close, or possible even match that level or maybe eventually exceed it.

I totally admit that I am about 3-4 weeks premature in my quest to design sites & I've admitted that several times in this thread.  I've also admitted that we are currently learning as we go, but we've already learned a lot.  As, a matter of fact, I wasn't even going to mention anything about web design on this board for at least a few more weeks, but I saw someone post about web sites & I thought that I would try to offer them a really good deal.  All that person can do is say yes, no, or nothing at all.   Sorry that a few don't like the fact that I took the initiative to offer to help someone, try to save them a decent amount of money & still offer them a quality product, at the same time.  Also, if I didn't deliver a website that totally met their expectations & have it done by a pre-set deadline, I wasn't going to charge them a single dime!     

Oh well, I'm finished with this thread until I am ready to offer a web design service on a broad scale &/or until I have my site where I want it.  If somebody wants a good deal, they can PM me, if they don't... they just don't. 


BTW, Dori you are right on about Google & Yahoo.  I haven't done the exact math except in my head, but right now, I'm getting appox. 6 or 7 hits from Google for every 1 hit that I get from Yahoo.   That's significant, IMHO.     

 

[dori36]

<<Anyway, it's obvious to me that several in this thread either don't like what I am proposing or they don't think that I am competent enough or they don't think that I will have the time or the drive or whatever other reason.  Seems like everytime I post something positive about what we are doing with my website, a post pops up with a counter punch to my positive post, whether intentional or not... (^ "hobby", "amateur", "anybody with a photoshop", etc.) ... I think that all of it should be said, but it's interesting that none of it was said until I started posting about websites & then when I began depending what we are planning to do.  But, my feelings aren't hurt & I can take it.  I know what my buddy & I can do & that's all that matters to me.  If I didn't think that we couldn't do a good job, I would've never posted a thing about web design.  Also, this is kind of like Lowlines... I know what Lowlines can do & I could care less if others make fun of them... even I did that the very 1st year that they were displayed at Denver (I think 1996 or 1997)!!    >>

I think you're taking commenets made in respect to the first post on the topic a bit too personally.  I think the original poster asked if he was crazy to try to do a site  himself.  Many people commented from all points of view.  Your point of view supported the idea of doing it oneself.  Others chimed in that that could be a slippery slope, including me.  It's not  "you", it's just the idea that whoever needs the website done needs to look at and weigh all possibilities.  Your impending design biz is one option, using an established outfit is another, and trying it on one's own on a "free" server is yet another.  To each his/her own.  I will ask you:  do you have calbe internet with very high speed? 

 

[red]

Dori, I found your posts to be excellent. I don't have a website but really learned a lot from you. Everyone likes to do their own thing but this is a great learning thread!!!

Red

 

[knabe]

how do website designers gauge their effectiveness in pleasing the customer, repeat business, evidence of relevance of site, gauge what's missing in the site, desired, how from users interracting with the site what they want versus what they say they want etc.  it seems most of the discussion is on bang for the buck rathter than on presenting a perspective, what the customer actually is purchasing that will help them etc.

here's an interesting site someone forwarded me this morning.  notice the one link on the cow to flush.

http://www.keeneyangus.net/home2.html
http://www.keeneyangus.net/1707.html

he's been on a different website, and he usually has interesting things to say.  definately not show cattle.  i'm sure TJ can appreciate them.  i know ozaraptor (jack) will, though he probably already is aware.

 

[dori36]

how do website designers gauge their effectiveness in pleasing the customer, repeat business, evidence of relevance of site, gauge what's missing in the site, desired, how from users interracting with the site what they want versus what they say they want etc.  it seems most of the discussion is on bang for the buck rathter than on presenting a perspective, what the customer actually is purchasing that will help them etc.

here's an interesting site someone forwarded me this morning.  notice the one link on the cow to flush.

http://www.keeneyangus.net/home2.html
http://www.keeneyangus.net/1707.html

he's been on a different website, and he usually has interesting things to say.  definately not show cattle.  i'm sure TJ can appreciate them.  i know ozaraptor (jack) will, though he probably already is aware.

I guess, Knabe, that if one pays to have a website designed, or even pops one up themselves, you'd hope they had a reason for doing so.  Why do you (any "you", not you personally) want a website?  Does it have a purpose or a "mission"?  Of is it just to allow you to communicate with others - sort of like an online diary.  That would be the blog type site.  All those statistics we've been talking about help if someone is trying to increase business with a website.  We can know who visits the site, what time of day they visit, which pages do they look at and how long do they stay on each page, what search words did they use to find your site.....and the list goes on.  All the "hits" are also counted.  That can be misleading as a "hit" is any electronic visit to any part of your site even if it's just a crawler/spammer/webot. 

So, I like to try to build in a way to determine if a buyer found my product on my site or some other way - like word of mouth, breed publication ads, or whatever.  If someone clicks on "Contact" anywhere on the site, it sends it to my main email address but through an alias so I know what is coming in from the site and what is coming in from regular email.  Measusring, quantifying, and investigating are the main tools to success.  If someone pays a designer and sees no increase in sales, visits, or whatever, I guess it's incumbant on the person who owns the site to communicate with that designer/host to make improvements.  Just like anyone else one hirse to perform a service.  I think the designer can only measure effectiveness if the customer/owner of the site lets them know, other than all those measurements we've talked about.

 

[dori36]

Dori, I found your posts to be excellent. I don't have a website but really learned a lot from you. Everyone likes to do their own thing but this is a great learning thread!!!

Red

Thanks, Red.  I'm trying to share what I know but admit that my knowledge is just the tip of a HUGE iceberg.  The Web changes nearly hourly and keeping up can be a full time job!  I agree, what a great thread for learning and thanks to "judge0707" for kicking it off!

 

[maineshowgirl_ok]

flying y promotions does a good job.  www.flyingypromotions.com

 

[TJ]

<<Anyway, it's obvious to me that several in this thread either don't like what I am proposing or they don't think that I am competent enough or they don't think that I will have the time or the drive or whatever other reason.  Seems like everytime I post something positive about what we are doing with my website, a post pops up with a counter punch to my positive post, whether intentional or not... (^ "hobby", "amateur", "anybody with a photoshop", etc.) ... I think that all of it should be said, but it's interesting that none of it was said until I started posting about websites & then when I began depending what we are planning to do.  But, my feelings aren't hurt & I can take it.  I know what my buddy & I can do & that's all that matters to me.  If I didn't think that we couldn't do a good job, I would've never posted a thing about web design.  Also, this is kind of like Lowlines... I know what Lowlines can do & I could care less if others make fun of them... even I did that the very 1st year that they were displayed at Denver (I think 1996 or 1997)!!     >>

I think you're taking commenets made in respect to the first post on the topic a bit too personally.  I think the original poster asked if he was crazy to try to do a site  himself.  Many people commented from all points of view.  Your point of view supported the idea of doing it oneself.  Others chimed in that that could be a slippery slope, including me.  It's not  "you", it's just the idea that whoever needs the website done needs to look at and weigh all possibilities.  Your impending design biz is one option, using an established outfit is another, and trying it on one's own on a "free" server is yet another.   To each his/her own.  I will ask you:  do you have calbe internet with very high speed? 

Dori, you are probably correct.  However, it seemed like as soon as I posted that I could probably help them, it seemed like everytime that I posted after that, someone would post & rip what I had just posted.  Maybe it wasn't directed at me, but it certainly seemed to be directly in response to what I had just posted each time.  Either way, it's not a big deal. 

I agree that it could be a slippery slope & probably it's not something that everyone should try.  I am going to be honest, my friend & I compliment each other well.  He can do things that I can't & I am better at somethings than he is.  If he wasn't helping me, I probably would never have done my own. 

How this whole thing got started... when my designers husband told me that she had passed away, I didn't know which direction to turn.  However, several people that I knew encouraged me to learn how to do web site stuff this myself.  About the same time, my friend wanted to start up a railroad antique website because Ebay stopped allowing the sales of Railroad locks & keys & that was his favorite hobby.  So, he told me that he was going to learn how to build & maintain a website & he told me that if I was patient, that we could handle finishing my site.  Well, we've spent A WHOLE LOT of time learning, studying, experimenting, etc. & we've learned a lot along the way... we still have more to learn, but we are on the downhill slope. 

I can see merit in choosing an established designer... I can see merit in doing it yourself too.  But, IMHO, not everybody will be able to pull off doing it themselves.  If my friend hadn't been helping me (2 heads are better than 1), I'd been in trouble & I don't care to admit that.  However, now that we know pretty much what we are doing, I wouldn't have it any other way. 

RE my connection speed... one of my computers is indeed high speed cable.  The one that I am using right now is high speed dsl (it's pretty fast).  My friend has lightening fast dsl.       



BTW, I have to agree with Red... Dori, your posts on this topic have been very good. 

 

 

[TJ]

how do website designers gauge their effectiveness in pleasing the customer, repeat business, evidence of relevance of site, gauge what's missing in the site, desired, how from users interracting with the site what they want versus what they say they want etc.  it seems most of the discussion is on bang for the buck rathter than on presenting a perspective, what the customer actually is purchasing that will help them etc.

here's an interesting site someone forwarded me this morning.  notice the one link on the cow to flush.

http://www.keeneyangus.net/home2.html
http://www.keeneyangus.net/1707.html

he's been on a different website, and he usually has interesting things to say.  definately not show cattle.  i'm sure TJ can appreciate them.  i know ozaraptor (jack) will, though he probably already is aware.

I know all about that operation & the owner.  I'm sure that most of the cattle are pretty good for what they are, but I'm not giving my endorsement.