Whats the focus of your breeding program?

[Diamond]

Its been vary interesting watching the conversations that go threw this site, and the different opinions that accompany them. Often times, we see clashes between various viewpoints, which brings up the question, "what is it that you strive for in your herd?" Are you the breeder who chances the banners, breeding specifically for the look that it takes to win in the ring? Or the kind that strives for maternal mommas, pound bulls, maybe calves to supply the feed yards. Is this just a hobby? or is it as intricate and important as disarming a bomb.

For our farm we strive on two aspect the foremost being an end product that brings a smile to the consumer as well as top  prices by the pound, our farms breed of focus is  bred specifically for their tenderness and taste, which often times leads them away from the show ideals, hair to short, smaller bone with larger meat yields and higher grade value. Cattle that carries no genetic disorders, gain weight on a grass/hay diet, and aren’t exposed to any growth hormone nor antibiotics. they have to calve out themselves, grow sufficiently, and be easy to manage, social animals.  The bulls we use on these cattle are 10 tenderness gene animals, who may never see a ring, but stand among the best in meat production.  While some of these  cattle have earned a banner or two, its not the focus for them.

On the flipside our the show cattle  have come from different corners of the country, and as anyone knows with show cattle, we try to breed and purchases the best to present in the ring. Big bone, loads of hair, and that look in which it takes.  they are fed a solid grain diet, high quality hay and are supplemented with anything they may need.  The bulls we chose are the kind that raise record selling steers/heifers and  that a cattle family knows as household names.  We still stay away from terrible temperaments, but aren’t quite as  specifying as we are with the ‘beef ‘ cattle. For these guys the fans come first and we worry about selling the byproduct of a ended show carrier steer afterwards.

 

[knabe]

The bulls we use on these cattle are 10 tenderness gene animals, who may never see a ring, but stand among the best in meat production. 

pfizer has a 3 gene tenderness panel (2 stars for each gene representing the same "tenderness" allele in both copies of the gene) with a 4 gene panel in australia not validated in america. 

 

[Diamond]

this is why you proof read: 10 on markers not tenderness, but wasent really my point.
aka The current GeneSTAR® test includes a suite of 12 markers: 4 markers for Marbling, 4 markers for Tenderness
and 4 markers for Feed Efficiency, I like bulls who click on 10-12 markers.

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Our focus is directed towards the female end of the business. The goal is to preduce pretty girls that work their tails off in production. I constantly search for new genetics that will further this goal. I don't use "politically correct" genetics unless they meet my criteria and sadly, few do. Structural soundness is the absolute first consideration, I don't care how the animal excells in everything else if it is a cripple. The foundation starts at the ground level and goes up from there. RW

 

[Show Steaks]

I'm still young but would love to have a "maternal clubby momma operation" maternally oriented cattle to sell females to clubby guys.. mostly simmental or angus based
I come from a birth to finish herd (sell on the grid) , i dont much like todays "show steers" the small never get fat steers really twist my stomach.
biggest things i see myself selecting when im evaluating replacment feamles is: Depth of body, pedigree, feminity, good front ends, did i mention depth of body, how their dam produces and milks... pretty much a good commercial cow before they can be somethin more

 

[rasor club calves]

to get the best posible steers and heifers for me and my sister

 

[Hilltop]

This should be intersting because I am going to get my wife to reply seperate to this. I believe we have similar goals but will see?  :-\ :-\
For me this is simple. I want to raise cattle that are accepted by all ends of the industry. Now doing this is another thing. LOL
We (I) have made enough mistakes in the cattle business already but hope that will help us now.
We have a small herd so for now our main focus is to raise females that will better our herd, be able to work in  purebred herds, AND  for either a small or large commercial producer. We usually are hoping for 60 to 70% females now. I would by lying if I said that I didn't care how they did in the show ring. I am very competitive and believe that the show ring does reflect were our industry is going to a certain extent. Now saying that I do not plan the breeding season just for a bunch of show calves the next year but if they are going to get everyone's attention then some people must think they are good. I do also believe that there are probably a lot more excellent livestock that never leave the pastures that could be breed changers or improvers but if the right people never see them they are just another cow or bull in the pasture. 
Our daughter started in 4-H last year and another goal (good or bad) is to have a competitive home grown steer. Any one who is anti show can cut that end of it down also but I really don't give a ____! Our daughter enjoys it and is getting good at it so she will get all the support she wants.
We are proud of what we are raising now and proud of what we have been able to do in the past, whether it was owning a National Champion 20 years ago, raising a Champion Shorthorn steer 12 years ago when Shorthorn's were not real popular with a lot of people, or breeding the dam of the 2009  Canadian National Champion Shorthorn Bull.
Last night my wife read me Bert Moore's write-up from the May-June Country. A quote from one breeder in his column was "Why would anyone want to buy a bull from me if I won't even use one of my own bulls". We have 4 bulls running(only really need 3) and two have been raised by ourselves will will be around for a long time. I believe this is so true and not just with herd bulls but replacement females, and show steers.

 

[Dyer Show cattle]

1/4 to half my herd gets AId for Club calves, been using no heatwave backround genetics while building the herd. Now that I have good females I am starting to breed to some heatwave sons that will be sold and not put into the herd. Then since my whole herd is made from females I have raised on some of the daughters I will try new bulls and split about half maternal genetics and half high powered and see what works.

Then the other half of the heard gets bred to my bull and this year is a purebred simm and I think many of the heifers and steers could be really great in a simm class. But mainly shoot for feedlot and replacement value with them.

 

[simtal]

For our farm we strive on two aspect the foremost being an end product that brings a smile to the consumer as well as top  prices by the pound, our farms breed of focus is  bred specifically for their tenderness and taste, which often times leads them away from the show ideals, hair to short, smaller bone with larger meat yields and higher grade value. Cattle that carries no genetic disorders, gain weight on a grass/hay diet, and aren’t exposed to any growth hormone nor antibiotics. they have to calve out themselves, grow sufficiently, and be easy to manage, social animals.  The bulls we use on these cattle are 10 tenderness gene animals, who may never see a ring, but stand among the best in meat production. 

who's paying you for the that improvement in tenderness??? 

 

[justintime]

Our focus in our breeding program has been based on producing breeding stock, however, I would say that through my life in this business, I have seen some changes within our main goal of producing breeding stock. I think that when I started raising cattle, one of my main goals was to produce some cattle that I could drag out to some shows as well as have some to put into sales. I think lots of young people really enjoy the competitive side of the show ring as well as the fun of travelling from show to show. I was no different. I still enjoy going to a show, but I am far less concerned with what the judge does in the ring than I used to be. I will also say that showing cattle isn't a priority but I do it simply because it is a major marketing tool for us. I used to drag cattle around for weeks and sometimes months each year. Now I focus on 1 major show ( Canadian Western Agribition) and occasionally take a few head to another. Last year, I sent some to the Royal Winter Fair in Toronto, and this year we took two bulls to Denver. Showing cattle is a major expense, so I constantly am monitoring it to see whether it pays. I am guilty of dragging between 12-16 head to Agribition and my wife thinks I am nuts. Two years ago, I took 16 head, and I came home with 4 of them. The rest sold at the show.I tell my wife that if I had not had them there, some of the people who bought from us would have bought something else in the barns rather than take another day or more, and drive to our farm. It varies from year to year, but I have always came home with a list of several potential buyers and it is also been a drawing card to our bull sale. Even though I still try to produce some cattle that I can show, I try to show breeding stock rather than breed show stock. Here in Canada, I think our shows are based closer to cattle that can work on a ranch or in a show ring than some shows in the US. By saying this, I am by no means saying that US show cattle will not work in a commercial setting. There are many that can work anywhere.

For many years, my focus was on producing females and a few good bulls. Lately, I have been finding that I am moving my focus on producing more good bulls, in fact, I found myself kinda happy when I had 6 bulls in a row from a group of recips that were calving. I find being able to sell bulls to be the most gratifying thing I have ever done in this business. In the past four years, we have owned interests in two bulls that were National Champions in Canada. While being a part of these wins was a good feeling, it was not even close to the feeling I had when a commercial bull buyer purchased his 14th bull in our sale this spring, or to the feeling I had last week when a new buyer came and purchased 5 bulls out of the pen. To me, these things are so much more a verification of what I have been trying to do, than any banner could ever do. Having repeat bull buyers, who come back time after time to buy their next herd sire(s) has to be one of the best feelings I can ever get in this business.

 

[chambero]

Our overall program is focused on raising black cattle that in order of priority 1) our feedlot buyers want to buy 2) we can retain our own replacements or sell bred females 3) raise steers and heifers that my sons can be competetive with in Texas 4) sell a few show calves to help pay for Item No. 3.  We do not try to raise bulls.

We AI around 150 hd per year right now with about 50 of those being virgin replacement heifers each year.  The other 100 head we AI mostly for show steers or crossbred show heifers.

We buy maternally-oriented clean-up/herd bulls that can raise mommas that can in turn raise show steers.  We've used Meyer sons heavily and are now starting to use some of the Ohlde/Griswold Angus genetics.  We are also buying more halfblood Simi bulls from other bloodlines.

Biggest problems we are trying to solve:  raising cattle that are a little easier doing, smaller framed than we have right now, but a little faster gaining in the feedlot.  Our muscling and grading in the feedlot is very good right now.  We have a few udder problems in our herd we are trying to weed out.

On raising show steers, we are doing pretty good raising a few good ones every year that are very competetive down here.  My sons are starting to win at some of our medium-size prospect shows.  We've sold some steers in past years before we started showing that have been breed champions at our majors.  I just need to get to the point I can raise more of them.

Biggest change I need to make: start using ET.  We just haven't had time before to mess with it.

Biggest mistake I've made on show steers - NOT using the Heat Seeker-Heat Wave line soon enough.  We lost a lot of ground in the middle part of the 2000s on the black steers we were raising.

 

[oakview]

We have raised Shorthorns since 1963 and I would say that I have always tried to focus on cattle that I like.  My tastes have changed over the years, for sure, but I have maintained an ideal in my mind and tried to breed for that.  We don't live in range country, I have no desire to brush cattle 8 times a day, and I don't like to feed my cows corn to get them to raise a calf, so I've selected for the cattle that work for my situation.  However, I've always felt that it costs no more to keep a good one than a bad one, so eye appeal is important to me.  I wouldn't say that I select specifically for show cattle or commercial cattle.  I like cattle that are pleasing to the eye, could compete in the show ring if somebody wanted to spend the time with them, are well muscled, but can still function maternally, I don't mind if they milk down a little when raising a calf as long as they put it back on quickly when the calf is weaned, and I want the market end of the crop to produce a desirable carcass for my customers.  Like most cattlemen in Iowa, the cattle are close by and we check them frequently, but I don't want 120 pound calves and I will not tolerate cripples.  We sell a lot of freezer beef and our market could expand greatly if I had the time.  Our local locker owner has a standing order for any calf I want to sell to feed out himself.  He sees our carcasses and likes what he sees.  I like the Trump line cattle with a shot of Maine for added top and lower quarter, so that's what I'm using.  I don't focus on strictly show steers or show heifers.  I just stick with what I like for their overall usefulness.   

 

[Diamond]

who's paying you for the that improvement in tenderness??? 
[/quote]

Like many things in life, the higher the quality of a product, the more value that it holds. Every year I have a standing order from the previous year for beef on the cattle that I breed for tenderness, and I get about 2 1/2 times as much for their beef then my show derived cattle, nor do I ever have a hard time selling them, to be honest I always fall short on them. This year I ended up with less then a quarter of beef because everyone sold out and in times like this, there must be something right  there when buying a whole/half/ quarter of  beef  is expensive. I also use this meat as promotion and have sold quite a few cow/calfs and bulls threw a tasting. We are breeding beef cattle right? I’m surprised that striving to improve taste is so much more surprising then breeding for hair or huge bone( not drilling on it, since I do the same with my show animals) but in practicality do you really think a lot of hair on a bun is appetizing enough to sell cattle to a consumer, or would the results that list a sire and dam in the top percentile for beef quality be a better means on advertisement?....but this is why I wanted to start this topic, because it seems that ones desires for their cattle seems stupid to somebody else, however isn’t being open minded the true route to improvement?

 

[shortdawg]

Mine is simple - making $$$$$

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Uh I think everybody is in it to make money. No wonder you sold your Augusta Pride cow. No offense but you sound like a breeder who will use  the hot bull of the month club then promote your genetics as a seedstock operation. (clapping) No stacking generations of good cows for you I guess? Aside from focusing on making money, what are you tryin to accomplish down there in Georgia? Do you have a direction? Club calves I would guess? Sorry but your post just came across wrong to me.


My program is about trying to build a herd of easy fleshing, nice mannered, well rounded cows. I want each one of them to be able to produce herd bulls and replacement heifers. They must produce a excellent carcass that is enjoyable for my customers to eat. I hope someday to put lots of  bulls and heifers into other purebred and commercial herds and help these people realize all the profit they can with my genetics and my help. I have never bred for show cattle but I do enjoy going to shows and sales and meeting great people. In a nutshell I guess you could say I am breeding for carcass and maternal excellence on minimum inputs. My cows are working for me not the other way around. Another "goal" for me would be to get more commercially accepted Shorthorn lines into the mainstream of our breed.

 

[simtal]

Our operation tries to exploit the U.S. tax system and swindle unsuspecting 4-hers out of their money.  All the while producing cattle that reject real world production and are loaded with many undesirable recessives.

 

[rtmcc]

Our focus is pure bred Angus with a couple Sim-Angus and Charolais around for color.  I like easy fleshing cows that can make it on grass, breed back fast and ween a big calf.  In winter they need to be able to survive on 20 pounds of feed a day on a dry matter basis with no grain.  They need to calve easy, be great moms and have beautiful udders.  This I am fussy about.  if I have to leave at 7:00 AM to go to a fat cattle sale, I don't have time to mess with a calf that can not get on a teat.  The bull calves born Jan. 1 till March 15 need to be good enough for the most discriminating commercial cow man with the upper end going to pure bred herds as herd sires or clean up bulls.

Cattle need to perform and have good carcass genetics.  Thats the cattle buyer side of me.  They can look GREAT doing it.  Thats the show dad side of me.

My theory with cows is that they need to look good enough so that at 10:00 PM on a cold January night they even look good in the lights of the skid loader when I finally get home to feed.
The kids have had a lot of succes in the sho ring ith B/O heifers.  But the bull sales have payed the bills.

Heres some of our typical cows.
Ron
<cowboy>

 

[PLKR]

Uh I think everybody is in it to make money. No wonder you sold your Augusta Pride cow. No offense but you sound like a breeder who will use  the hot bull of the month club then promote your genetics as a seedstock operation. (clapping) No stacking generations of good cows for you I guess? Aside from focusing on making money, what are you tryin to accomplish down there in Georgia? Do you have a direction? Club calves I would guess? Sorry but your post just came across wrong to me.


My program is about trying to build a herd of easy fleshing, nice mannered, well rounded cows. I want each one of them to be able to produce herd bulls and replacement heifers. They must produce a excellent carcass that is enjoyable for my customers to eat. I hope someday to put lots of  bulls and heifers into other purebred and commercial herds and help these people realize all the profit they can with my genetics and my help. I have never bred for show cattle but I do enjoy going to shows and sales and meeting great people. In a nutshell I guess you could say I am breeding for carcass and maternal excellence on minimum inputs. My cows are working for me not the other way around. Another "goal" for me would be to get more commercially accepted Shorthorn lines into the mainstream of our breed.

I certainly don't need to defend Shortdawg--I'm sure he can handle that himself--but I have no idea how you came to numerous conclusions based on his simple post.        BTW, I'm certainly in favor of building strong cow families, etc., but if you don't make some money "along the way", it may be a moot accomplishment........

 

[MYT Farms]

Yet another fun SP read. I just have two simple goals. Make money and have fun. Sound familiar?

 

[shortdawg]

Trev, First all my post was meant in fun OK !!!!! The real reason I'm in the cow business is b/c of my kids - it makes me spend more time with them that I might not spend if we didn't have cattle - commercial or show cattle. I don't know how long you've been around shorthorns but we were featured in a July herd issue two or three years ago. If you can find that article you MIGHT know enough about MY program to pass judgement on it. I think that article may be in the steerplanet archives if you want to search(New River Cattle). I don't use the hot bull of the month, I use bulls that I think will work on my cows. As far as the Augusta Pride cow I sold her b/c she wasn't producing the kind I wanted. I answered your post when you asked about her in the nicest way I could keeping in mind that it really wasn't none of your business since you had not called me interested in buying her. She calved every year (twins one year) and all were heifers but with the exception of the last were just not the kind I wanted. I had another AP female that died in calf from a unterine torison that I planned to flush and build a solid set of females out of. This year I bred many on my shorties to Northern Improvement to get some quality replacements that I can breed shorty or for steers. I love for my cows to look like cows and that is the basis for what bulls I use. I've used two Sonny sons for most of my natural breeding services and have one JPJ son that I use on heifers. I will build on a cow family when I think I've got the right cow to breed around and not until. I may have plans for one to be a future donor but I'm not going to flush just for the sake of flushing. I'm not going to offer a calf for sale if I can't stand behind it. The calf out of the AP female that I sold in Clemson I thought would make a good show heifer for some junior. I think the steerplanet members that I've dealt with will say that I'm a very fair person to deal with and stand behind what I say and my cattle. As for future direction I have a Vegas/Dateline Angus Plus female that I am really excited about and another Augusta Pride female that I think will produce some great females but ....time will tell and they won't be flushed unless I they show me they are worhty of being flushed. We like the steer deal as well and have two State Champs in breed over the last two years as well as a Reserve Supreme Champion in '09. I do breed some for steers but I don't consider myself a clubby breeder. My ultimate goal is for my kids to be successful in all they do not just cattle and feel the same about the kids I sell to. My youngest son is showing a steer that HE raised this year and I think he will find great satisfaction in showing his own and I think the herd we have and the breeding decisions we've made will continue that success that we've had. As for the commercial sector we have many half blood shorty/angus cows that are scattered all around my area producing for their owners and I manage my Dad's commercial herd with $$$ as the goal. If you have any further questions feel free to call 229-388-7038. Thanks, Chad