Whats the focus of your breeding program?

[Doc]

Well said Shady Lane & I " think " that is point that the majority of the people ( I'm afraid to say breeders ;D) on here were trying to make. I know for myself that I have a limited amount of ground & if I purchase a female I usually need to make room somewhere. Sometimes it may be a female that I have flushed & have some eggs in the tank or a dtr in the herd , that I will sell to get the most return on my investment. Just like you compared a cow to a car I will continue on those lines. I may have bought her new ( from a "bigtime" breeder) & paid the premium price. Now that she has left the "lot" , I turn around to sell her & take the "hit" but I got some use out of her (miles) & now I'm ready to sell her. She will still go out & do a good job for someone that may just have a smaller budget or may be just smarter than me  ;D & said they would never by a "new car". Her genetics have not changed & more than likely her phenotype has not changed. But she is still a good "car".

 

[Sammy]

You are a nice person Chambero as you are trying to deal with folks with nothing better to do than over-analyze comments on a gossip board - I think that a lot of what both of us reference is that most cattle in this country and probably Canada are in places that don't have a "breeding program" - they just gain weight or reproduce, a commodity -  lets move on and don't take it so seriously DL - heck there is abuse everywhere - cattle, horses, dogs, people (young and old) and so on - can't be a social worker to everything  - all breeding programs are breeding what we like to hopefully turn a profit sometimes to keep us in business - and leave Shortdawg alone, he sold the dang cow because he wanted to - jeeeesh - lighten up, it is Friday and pretty hot and surely we are about done with this thread - was interesting as to how riled up shorthorn folks can get - lot of passion there - good for them -

 

[shortdawg]

I would sincerely like to thank those who commented on my behalf. I've spent my life trying to build and maintain a good report among people whether I know them or not. Serving as a Deacon and Adult Sunday School Teacher in Church, on the local School Board as well as many other leadership positions in my community puts me under a constant microscope. It's not an easy thing to take when people always question every move you make as well as your motives for doing things. The things I'm most proud of are my Faith, my Family, and my integrity. They all take a lifetime to build & maintain and I can assure you all that selling cattle dishonestly is not worth tearing down those things I cherish the most. If you ever want to know about any animal I own or plan to sell I'm just a phone call, email, or PM away.

 

[aj]

There are some Nebraska sandhiller boys that run commercial herds that I would think might take offense to Chubero. These guys will spend as much as 5,000 bucks per herd bull and take better care of their cattle then there own kids. If you have cows locked up in pens it almost sounds like it was a cow trading outfit outfit to me. Buying and selling salebarn cattle.Technically commercial....but more like a trader.jmo

 

[chambero]

Of course there are lots of good commercial outfits, but most herds just kind of take care of themselves.  I didn't ask, but the place those cows were in the pens were probably in their because they were sick or hurt, etc.  But it was still bad. 

Why is ok for commercial outfits to take offense at something yet people involved with show cattle are supposed keep quiet and take it?

 

[aj]

Good point Chambero. I don't care if people show cattle. I know people don't care if I care or not. I just want to see a spade called a spade. I got the impression that people think the world is made up of 90% show cattle and the other 10% is the industry. Well in my state I think it is 90% commercial industry and 10% show deal. They the show ring is set up you cannot raise cattle that fit both scenario's. The showring has never got it right. They always swing to far out. The commercial guys don't care if Lucy Ducy domino cost 100.000$ or not. They don't care if little suzies fool heifer was an all american. They don't care if Rita's pride is a good flushing cow. They just don't care. They don't care if they have a square hip or a freaky front. Neither is wrong or right but lets call the differences. I think some of the heated debate started cause Shorthorn people wondered why they weren't accepted in the commercial markets "market share". If the breeds national champions weigh 120# at birth and are sterile and never have strict natural selection put on them to perform in the country I just call it a "Houston we have a problem" moment.  I don't really care if your calves weigh 120#'s or not besides that. It is a good family practice to show calves in most scenarios. As far as people getting ito head butting arguements I think it is because digs are made. Things get personal. Things esculate. It is hard to debate in "bumper sticker" type statements. I think the showring should ban carriers of lethal genetic defects. Other people don't. I think it just drives a wedge between the beef industry and the show ring scenarios. I truly admire the stands that the Angus and Red Angus breeds have taken on defect stands. It is true that you can test around defects but commercial herds will not pay for these tests just for the fun of it. jmo

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

Good point Chambero. I don't care if people show cattle. I know people don't care if I care or not. I just want to see a spade called a spade. I got the impression that people think the world is made up of 90% show cattle and the other 10% is the industry. Well in my state I think it is 90% commercial industry and 10% show deal. They the show ring is set up you cannot raise cattle that fit both scenario's. The showring has never got it right. They always swing to far out. The commercial guys don't care if Lucy Ducy domino cost 100.000$ or not. They don't care if little suzies fool heifer was an all american. They don't care if Rita's pride is a good flushing cow. They just don't care. They don't care if they have a square hip or a freaky front. Neither is wrong or right but lets call the differences. I think some of the heated debate started cause Shorthorn people wondered why they weren't accepted in the commercial markets "market share". If the breeds national champions weigh 120# at birth and are sterile and never have strict natural selection put on them to perform in the country I just call it a "Houston we have a problem" moment.  I don't really care if your calves weigh 120#'s or not besides that. It is a good family practice to show calves in most scenarios. As far as people getting ito head butting arguements I think it is because digs are made. Things get personal. Things esculate. It is hard to debate in "bumper sticker" type statements. I think the showring should ban carriers of lethal genetic defects. Other people don't. I think it just drives a wedge between the beef industry and the show ring scenarios. I truly admire the stands that the Angus and Red Angus breeds have taken on defect stands. It is true that you can test around defects but commercial herds will not pay for these tests just for the fun of it. jmo

I think that the ratio would be closer to 99.8% to .2% here.  I agree with most of what you are saying, but as far a genetic defects go, a commercial breeder doesnt need to be testing for the defects he just needs to know what is the chance that he has it in his herd and go from there.  If you are buying bulls and femails from a breeder then they would probably be the one to test the animal before it goes in the sale.  As far as the shorthorn deal goes we do have to get the BW deal back down to where it needs to be and BE HONEST!! It does no one any good to lie about the bw of a animal.  If you sell it ot someone and they get alot of dead calves they know the truth and they just wont buy from you again.  End of story.

 

[JbarL]

This is absolutely pathetic, has this what steer planet has become, an argument among members on the stupidest grounds. Face it, one cow doesn’t make or brake a herd, and no matter how nice or nasty you are, there will be farms that swear by you, if your producing the kind of cattle they want. Not to mention people strive for different things, unless that cow was tossing  ten legged non-gaining junk there’s no reason why she cant be entered into a sale if the information provided is correct. This may not be your ideals but that’s what’s nice about this country, is we do have choices on how we go about our lives.  You know this puts a truly unpleasant taste in my mouth, its seems that ever since we lost 'red' on here the forums have gone to the dogs, and everyone of you who are doing that, should be ashamed. Farmers are a dieing breed, be it hobby or a profession, you think we could get along enough to have simple conversations! Instead we bark down each other when they do something not to our personal liking? How horrible.

reminds me of the srping of 07....and the pha debates....seems like it came up in half of the topics.....and just as heated and personal....this is not what it has become,..... but maybe more proof... of what its always been......jbarl

 

[Jill]

Either way, I don't like the direction this board has taken!

 

[sue]

I think about the young people that lurk but do not post on this board. Let's face it we all benefit from the people we meet on the SP. Positive impact helps everyone... turn on the news if you want a fight or drama?
Buy a ad if you want to advertise.

 

[aj]

Wish I could have attended the srping of 07. Sounded like fun.

 

[Diamond]

reminds me of the srping of 07....and the pha debates....seems like it came up in half of the topics.....and just as heated and personal....this is not what it has become,..... but maybe more proof... of what its always been......jbarl
[/quote]

And I’m sure ALL the complaining, whining, and arguments really helped solve that dilemma

 

[ZNT]

So we are now 5 pages into this post and only a few have actually posted on what there breeding program focus is.  I would love to see more posts describing your operations, your herds, your goals, and even the breeds of cattle you raise.  I know we have all different types of breeders, raising all types of breeds, and located not just in the US, but Canada, and even Australia.

I like to talk about what we are doing and why we are doing it.  And I know many of you are just as proud of your goals and what you have accomplished.  Let's hear them. 

 

[garybob]

Of course there are lots of good commercial outfits, but most herds just kind of take care of themselves.  I didn't ask, but the place those cows were in the pens were probably in their because they were sick or hurt, etc.  But it was still bad. 

Why is ok for commercial outfits to take offense at something yet people involved with show cattle are supposed keep quiet and take it?

I'd like to ask "vice versa". When someone posts a rhetorical question about structure, birthweight, mature size, fertility, or genetic defects, you show guys get more riled-up than my uncle Don Henry did when I answered a cell-phone call "bueno", and not "hello".

GB

 

[chambero]

I've answered those questions honestly till I'm blue in the face the last couple of years with either real data or specific first-hand observations, but few people ever respond when I do because my answers either 1) aren't what some people want to hear or 2) they don't believe me.

I only get riled up about twice a year after reading the umpteen thousandth post of unsubstantiated statements.  Ever so often I figure its worth the grief to lay out counterarguments for new readers who might otherwise consider 90% of what's said on this board to be uncontested gospel.

Maybe I just don't have a lot of those problems because we don't fool with shorthorns.    If I did, maybe I'd be in the same bad mood about cattle other folks are.

I've been breeding for show steers since the mid 90s and I'm still waiting (thank goodness) for our first c-section and have never had a TH or PHA affected calf.  We did have a couple of spastic paresis calves over the years out of one herd bull who subsequently got voted off the island.

 

[garybob]

I've answered those questions honestly till I'm blue in the face the last couple of years with either real data or specific first-hand observations, but few people ever respond when I do because my answers either 1) aren't what some people want to hear or 2) they don't believe me.

I only get riled up about twice a year after reading the umpteen thousandth post of unsubstantiated statements.  Ever so often I figure its worth the grief to lay out counterarguments for new readers who might otherwise consider 90% of what's said on this board to be uncontested gospel.

Maybe I just don't have a lot of those problems because we don't fool with shorthorns.    If I did, maybe I'd be in the same bad mood about cattle other folks are.

I've been breeding for show steers since the mid 90s and I'm still waiting (thank goodness) for our first c-section and have never had a TH or PHA affected calf.  We did have a couple of spastic paresis calves over the years out of one herd bull who subsequently got voted off the island.
[/quote <beer> O0 (pop) (thumbsup) <party> <rock>

 

[shortdawg]

OK ! Here's the short answer for my breeding program . Right now breeding a few of my Shorthorn females to Northern Improvement to get some quality replacement females that I can breed for steers or for Shorty Plus calves. I done the Angus/Shorty cross for some time and really like the quality of those halfbloods. So, my concentration right now is more toward the Shorty Plus side of the Shorthorn deal.

 

[bluffcountrycattle]

The goal of our small operation is to be diverse enough to sell in a variety of markets.  Our cows have to be the right size, be sound structured with good milking udders, and calve unassisted.  These registered angus cows also have good spread epd's to excel in growth and put pounds on their calves.  We also select for good looks, as the offspring are that much easier to sell off the farm.  We can merchandise some show heifers off the farm in the fall, and the bull pen mates are certainly acceptable for our commercial market.  We put very little emphasis on carcass epd's, as most all the commercial guys sell feeder calves in our area.  We've  been fortunate enough to find a herd sire that can do all the things we need, and his daughters we mated up AI to select for similar traits and looks.  With close to 500 angus bulls being sold in a couple county radius of us, we have to be different to compete, and use bloodlines that are different.  So far we've got along good!  I think ideally we will try and merchandise more calves in the fall, as we have to buy all our feedstuffs.  It's hard to raise out these yearling bulls and then get beat up on price by bull shoppers.  There is a difference in quality, but so many are price shoppers unless you have a long term reputable farm name.  We are also thinking of using heifer sexed semen next year to increase the possible show heifer prospects we can sell in the fall.  Right or wrong, that is what our small operation is doing, and hopefully where we are headed to remain profitable!

 

[garybob]

yeah, well, wait until a flood of Water-head, Curly calf, and Fawn calves hit the black-based commercial industry. Then, we'll see who's in a bad mood.

GB

 

[CAB]

  I've been wanting to answer this question since it first was asked but have had to ask myself just what the heck are my goals? I love cattle of all types and purposes and I think that makes it hard to say just what I try to strive for the most. Most times when I breed a cow for a heifer and get one, that excites me the most. I can't seem to get the cow herd good enough to satisfy myself quick enough. As I get older, I find so much  respect for a great herd of maternal/productive cows that have taken a lifetime to put together than I would have a couple of decades ago. I also like to breed for  a few head of competitive steers. The defective genetics are a catch 22 for me. It used to seem easier to get a great steer out. I love helping kids try to find some level of success in the showring. There's nothing better than a kid doing the work with some guidance & having a level of satisfaction that you can feel their self confidence grow so much in a show season and then taking the another step the next year to get to hopefully the next level of growth & maturity. At times our cow herd is work, but for the most part cows are what I love to spend my time with. I guess I hope when I get ready to hang up my boots, I hope that someone can see that our cows have taken a lifetime to put together and hopefully I can find someone that I want to help, take them over.