When is it considered overkill?

[Tallcool1]

I understand things happen and things aren't going to go the way sometimes we think they should but that's a great opportunity to teach the kids.  Win humbly lose graciously, maybe. I think it's important to teach the kids that sometimes life happens in ways it shouldn't. Life isn't fair, and this is a great way to teach kids that. But we can't ahelter them entirely either.

These lessons all exist no matter if you are showing at a Local, County, District, State, or National Level.

These lessons really have nothing to do with this post.  These lessons are a given for each and every person on this site.  We all understand this part or we wouldn't be on this site or showing cattle.

 

[ifinditfunny]

Then let the kids and families show the cattle they have. Shake hands say good luck and work your tail off to beat them instead of telling families what they should and should not do with their calves.

 

[Tallcool1]

Then let the kids and families show the cattle they have. Shake hands say good luck and work your tail off to beat them instead of telling families what they should and should not do with their calves.

I never said that they can't.  You should read back on my posts. 

I clearly said that it was MY opinion, and the way that WE handle it.

I never looked down or talked down to anyone regarding this topic.  I shared my experience and my opinion. 

So, with that said...shake hands and come out fighting!!!

 

[knabe]

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The question is "When is it considered overkill"?  at some level, the whole show thing is overkill.


It is like the 12 year old basketball team that averages 6"1" signing up in the bronze division.  It is about not challenging ourselves or our children to compete on a stage that is bigger than their comfort zone. they then move on to their competitive level. if they stay, no one will show up and rules start to take over that usually end up taking all the fun out of it as the rules people over kill that. sometimes getting out of one's comfort zone is the quickest way to learn. we for some reason have learned to baby our children so much that it's normal for them to be our children and on health care till age 26 and to vote for it as if it's not overkill. pretty silly that we are worried about overkill with show cattle and it's not overkill to kill saddam hussein or moramar khadaffi, the only difference being the number of people that needed to die to accomplish that.


It is overkill. learning where one fits is a good lesson so one can use one set of inputs to gauge improving.  some people don't want to improve, and are usually the ones making rules so it looks like they do, ending up participation trophies and no real competition.  things seem to never change.

 

[knabe]

shake hands and come out fighting!!!

shake it off,
shake it off,
no more wronging and only righting
shake it off,
shake it off.

 

[RyanChandler]

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The question is "When is it considered overkill"?  at some level, the whole show thing is overkill.

Isn't that the truth...

 

[Tallcool1]

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The question is "When is it considered overkill"?  at some level, the whole show thing is overkill.


It is like the 12 year old basketball team that averages 6"1" signing up in the bronze division.  It is about not challenging ourselves or our children to compete on a stage that is bigger than their comfort zone. they then move on to their competitive level. if they stay, no one will show up and rules start to take over that usually end up taking all the fun out of it as the rules people over kill that. sometimes getting out of one's comfort zone is the quickest way to learn. we for some reason have learned to baby our children so much that it's normal for them to be our children and on health care till age 26 and to vote for it as if it's not overkill. pretty silly that we are worried about overkill with show cattle and it's not overkill to kill saddam hussein or moramar khadaffi, the only difference being the number of people that needed to die to accomplish that.


It is overkill. learning where one fits is a good lesson so one can use one set of inputs to gauge improving.  some people don't want to improve, and are usually the ones making rules so it looks like they do, ending up participation trophies and no real competition.  things seem to never change.

knabe, this is a good post.  It does not necessarily support my stance one way or another.  Good post.

 

[obie105]

In our county and state as far as I know you can take the same steer to county and state fair. If people want to spend $15K so be it. I grew up with one of the largest cattle guys in the country in my county. Back then he showed plus his older sister. Between the two of them it wasn't easy. They hauled the same heifers and steers all summer. So what. I know when my son is old enough I am not going to buy seperate cattle to take to our 20 head county fair and if a good one gets beat so be it. It is a risk you take at every show. Life isn't fair. Is it overkill? It could be but if your showing the same one all year and have the money to do it why buy 2 just to keep the people at your home show happy?

 

[vc]

Obie, our county is prior to state, and all champions must sell, they also tattoo the grand and reserve, so after that your done showing that animal. State used to be a little over a month after our county fair, now it is about a week. For the kids taking state fair calves, (there may be 2 to 3 kids from county going to state) their state fair calves are still at home in the cooler not tied in the barn at the county fair. State fair is 500 miles, 9 hours away from our county.

 

[Tallcool1]

Our county is terminal as well.  If you take a good one, he isn't going home.

 

[rrblack78]

Oh wow...this went down hill fast. I didn't mean for our situation to take over the original topic. I was trying to let the original poster know I agree with him but sometimes the people accused of the overkill are not doing it so they can rub everyone's face in the fact that they have more money or better calves. We could only afford this one heifer and still be competitive in Houston. We had originally planned to not show her at county but our CEA begged us to tag her because numbers are so low. We know that county, jackpots, and majors are different animals and there is every chance she will be considered "over conditioned" to win at county.

 

[obie105]

Obie, our county is prior to state, and all champions must sell, they also tattoo the grand and reserve, so after that your done showing that animal. State used to be a little over a month after our county fair, now it is about a week. For the kids taking state fair calves, (there may be 2 to 3 kids from county going to state) their state fair calves are still at home in the cooler not tied in the barn at the county fair. State fair is 500 miles, 9 hours away from our county.

I'm in Iowa. I guess every state has different rules.

 

[aj]

The youth shows.....can be and are mostly about the parents. It can become......family against family which is kinda cool. It is never about a kid against a kid......I guess it can be down at the bottom of the classes.

 

[Spencer10218]

First off show your calf where you want to show it
I see it all the time at my fair, expensive calves, top breeders it's rough a hobby
But it's not like us kids hate eachother like the parents do
Heck the steer show ends and we hang out like friends do
Heck my friend has 60k in two calves this year
And I have $2000 (lol)
The whole industry is overkill
And I don't care

And it was really foolish to think this forum could handle this topic

 

[Tallcool1]

First off show your calf where you want to show it
I see it all the time at my fair, expensive calves, top breeders it's rough a hobby
But it's not like us kids hate eachother like the parents do
Heck the steer show ends and we hang out like friends do
Heck my friend has 60k in two calves this year
And I have $2000 (lol)
The whole industry is overkill
And I don't care

And it was really foolish to think this forum colluded handle this topic
[/quote

Good post!

 

[DLD]

Sorry, guess I'm late to the party, but this post seems pretty important to me.

Oh and there used to be about 50 steers that would be in the county fair. Last year there were about 20.

Yes, the whole junior show deal is pretty much overkill.  But nowadays we're stacking our overkill so deep that a whole lot of people are tired of trying to keep up.  There are some of us that are going to keep fighting it by showing what we raise or can buy for what we consider reasonable prices, but my biggest concern is that for every family that "steps up" and commits to go all out, another family (or two) steps away.  Either they can't, or just don't want to commit that much time and money to the project. 

Yes, it's everyone's right to spend what they want and show whatever they want wherever they want.  Here in OK I know of no terminal county premium sales anymore.  Everyone shows the same cattle at county and state shows - a few might "save one" for OYE or Tulsa, but nobody is expected to take lesser quality stock to any particular show.  We don't have the kind of premium sale money that many of you talk about - breaking even, much less profit, isn't expected by most people that expect to consistently make the sale.  It's all about how much you're willing to lose just to "get along".  I just have to wonder how long the whole program is sustainable at this rate.

 

[vc]

Funny, on champion drive day you see 6 or 7 kids on each calf getting them ready, these are the who did not make the drive. For the most part the families are all standing around chatting and having a good time. Once in a while you get those families who are up tight but for the most part it's all good. Seems like the kids who put in the time, jackpot a little, tend to hang together. I've brought water to the kid who's steer ended up beating us. It is about competition but there is camaraderie, sportsmanship, friends, cattle and memories as well.
As far as numbers, our county fair numbers fluctuate depending on what they sold for the year before good year the next year is up, bad year the numbers are down. This year they will be down probably around 50 head last year there were about 80. They haven't figured out supply and demand yet, to many steers price is down, next year fewer calves higher prices. Last  year they averaged 1.80, the year before 3.50. Everyone wants to win, a few want to put in the time and effort it takes. The boy I helped the last three years, won his class with a $1200 calf, the next year he won the fair with a $1800 steer, last year he took a $3500 steer and won but the competition was quite stiff last year. No cooler, a good calf, and hard work, and a little luck.

 

[Spencer10218]

The boy I helped the last three years, won his class with a $1200 calf, the next year he won the fair with a $1800 steer, last year he took a $3500 steer and won but the competition was quite stiff last year. No cooler, a good calf, and hard work, and a little luck.

That's how it's done, that's the best kind of win
When you put in the hours and get good results

 

[RyanChandler]

There are some of us that are going to keep fighting it by showing what we raise or can buy for what we consider reasonable prices,

Very few people buy a calf for what 'they consider' to be an unreasonable price.  It may be a hard pill to swallow but the people with the high end calves are likely spending a much lower % of their household income on calves than what the people with the low to mid level calves are spending. Especially when you factor in all their other show related expenses. 

 

[chambero]

Nobody should be expected to take a lesser calf to a county show.  In my opinion, the bigger problem in the original case is it sounds like nobody else is trying hard enough to give the "big spenders" competition.  It's not that hard to either find competetive animals at reasonable prices (<$5k) or to raise them yourselves.  Something is wrong if there is that big of a difference in animals.

Show steer prices at high end traders are amazingly high now.  They buy those steers from breeders.

People that pay those prices are paying a premium for knowledge and service, much more so than the animal. Good steer prospects are as common as fleas now. 
People that gripe about how much somebody else spends usually are just as guilty of wanting a shortcut as the ones that spend that money.
If you are willing to put in years learning to pick them, feed them, and show them you can compete with anyone, certainly at a county level.  But it does literally take years. You don't just walk in off the street and do it. 

Are you sure you know how much they spend or does everyone just think they know?  Nobody I know ever tells that.