Your thoughts on some Shorthorn AI Sires

[phillse]

I would like to hear your thoughts and/or experience with following bulls.  What do you consider their strengths and weaknesses?  What do you like and/or not like about them?

MURIDALE RAW HIDE 6E
https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=4287483
https://csa.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=M480468


HOMEPLACE HOT COMMODITY
I have seen a lot of discussion here about this bull I would be interested in thoughts compared to the others listed.
https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=4251563


BAR N DELIVERANCE 802F
https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=4276955

JSF MARQUIS 127X
https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=4169554

 

[oakview]

Use of these bulls, and any others, depends on what you have for cows and what you want in your herd.  In my opinion, Raw Hide would add depth and fleshing ability.  If you wanted a little more show ring style, perhaps the Hot Commodity son would do the job.  I've seen some pretty decent Marquis offspring, but am not too familiar with Deliverance.  There are lots of other options besides these bulls.

 

[JPS]

I used Muridale Raw Hide this year, so I can give you answer next year.  I spoke extensively with Scot Muri , he said Russell got some nice calves out of him.  They could comment.

JSF Marquis goes back on the paternal side to Eionmor Marquis 86G.  I saw him as a calf alongside his mother.  She was a beautiful cow and I believe was 12-14 years old.  Still had a nice udder.  86G produced functional females.  Bottom side goes back to Jazz and I don't follow those genetics very much.

Bar N deliverance goes back to some solid Canadian genetics.  Only has 2 progeny registered, so I don't know if you could find much on him.

There a are multiple Hot Commodity users that should have an opinion for you.

 

[phillse]

I am interested in easy calving bulls consistently producing moderate framed, fertile, functional, good footed females that can perform in a grass, hay (Bahia) and mineral environment on the Alabama Gulf Coast with longevity.  The cattle are starting to take the shape of a line bred blend of Shadybrook Scotty and Wakaru Goldmine 2109 with Rob Sneed breeding becoming part of the blend.

As for the commment on the Proud Jazz stuff I have limited experience.  The only experience I have is with a JSF Capiche calf.  It  was built great but a too small framed with very little growth.

 

[beebe]

Put some Rawhide embryos in today.

 

[oakview]

From the description of what you want, I would second the motion of Rawhide.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Homeplace Hot Commodity pretty well checks all the boxes with a very stout but  showier look-Hes extremely EZ keeping as well His heifer calves have been very moderate at birth-Some of the bulls weighed a little more because they are so stout similar to some Canadian cattle-But I dont think he had any calving problems-From the pictures ive seen the bull calves did not look that heavy-But he weighs EVERY CALF--I mentioned on another post that I thought Homedale HC  would be a great option on Canadian breeding Dale his breeder has used Muridale Thermal Energy and i think some others so he may have used some of the ones listed  O0

 

[Dale]

I have not used the bulls you are looking at with the exception of our own, but here is my $.02 worth.

A few years ago I visited Dale Studer to have a look at his Saskvalley Tradition calves.  His sale catalog was being finished that day so I got the quick tour, which was very understandable.  Dale took me to the show barn and then to see JSF Marquis 127, which he was very high on.  Dale had just sold 100 straws of semen on Marquis to a major breeder, who cares a lot about eye appeal.  Marquis is the bull out of your 4 that is a different tool to use--he is a growth bull and the other three are more moderate.  Marquis is the most proven sire, but the other 3 are genomic tested, which gives some indication.  Why not use 2 or 3 or even all four to sample what works well in your environment?

Some traits are antagonistic, so the long suit of growth for Marquis may reflect in a few of his EPD's in a negative way, like about any other growth bull.  While Marquis was in his working clothes and did not impress me as huge, he certainly is a performance bull, which is evident from some of the breeders who have used him.  Like any good bull, match him or the other 3 with the right cows for the best results.  All 4 look like bulls, which is the way it is supposed to be.  A masculine bull sires feminine females, so it is win-win.

I've compared and contrasted the 4 bulls you are considering--you have some continuity in your choices.  JSF, Muridale, and Bar N are all top notch breeding programs!  Just to be safe breed Marquis only to cows and the other 3 might all be suitable for heifers or cows.  These 4 bulls range from well above average to excellent in $BMI, which is one of the best ways to keep Shorthorns a great maternal breed.  Please post some feedback when your calves have dropped.

 

[Medium Rare]

For me, 127x stands out from your list as being different than the rest. I would consider him to be more of the growth bull in the bunch. A pair of his sons here were very well accepted by commercial angus breeders. I retained a son of his to use on heifers and then sold him into a herd to lower their bws and he's working well while looking the part and slicking off fast.

After trying a few other bulls, I bought another cane on 127x to use on some 4 frames and a few who are way too close to 3s for me.

 

[unclebobo]

Hey Medium Rare any pictures of progeny out of him? thanks O0

 

[phillse]

Snapped a pic with my phone of the current bull. His sire is RS DV 034 329 08. MGS is Waukaru Goldmine 2109. MGGS is Shadybrook Scotty 83K.

The thread below has a picture of his dam and grandma as well as one of him at 7 months.
https://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/shadybrook-scotty-daughter-and-calf-in-south-alabama/

Granddam is still in production at over 12 and dam at over 8. Both have the honor of being Performance Dam’s for 3 years in a row.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Hey Phiiesi sorry bout the spelling-Looking at the bull and how hes bred-I like a little outcross-The Canadian Marquis blood -Or Homeplace Hot commodity-I can tell you I more or less saw most of the cattle in Deertrail Buckshots pedigree(sire of the Shadybrooke bull of your cow)  Buckshot ran with a bull calf of mine (I had a herd with DTR) till they both sold Really good cattle then and now if you put it in perspective-So are those two bulls both of which come from decades of performance breeding I HAVE TO SAY DALES (HOMEPLACE) CATTLE ARE THE MOST DOCUMENTED ANIMALS IN YOUR LIST-I just saw another picture of a young heifer from Homeplace HC-SHE IS VERY GOOD CONTINUES THE SOLID RED DEAL-AND HER SIRE WOULD REALLY COMPLEMENT THE BREEDING OF THE CATTLE YOU HAVE MENTIONED-PICTURED RE THEIR GENERAL SIZE AND MAKEUP  AND OR AS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY STATED GOOD CANADIAN BLOOD O0

 

[phillse]

Was able to snap a picture of one of the young cows while checking minerals yesterday.  I actually had my phone with me.

 

[Duncraggan]

Good looking, functional cow!

 

[phillse]

Thanks Duncraggan,

I will try to post some more pictures as I get around to taking them.

 

[RyanChandler]

If you like what you have Marquis is the clear option.  He's gonna make cattle similiar to what you have only in a higher performance package.  Saw a son of his on Fb for sale today-- looked nice but he had to be close to a 7 Frame.  If youre wanting to incorporate some fleshing ease, which I would recommend, then the other options can help you more.  Homeplace HC bottom side of his pedigree is mostly the same type of cattle as you have now.  His MGS is a different type bull that will add bone and thickness to your current type. So maybe if you like what you have but want to inject a little something different this may be your choice.  Think the other two Rawhide and Deliverance will add more guts and a looser hide but likely not as much muscle as Marquis or HHC.  Another bull I'll add is Sultan of Jazz- think he or any of the reasonable performance Jazzes would work really well over the type of cows you have.  Looking across the breed, the very best cows being made were made about 5-6 years ago.  Every outfit I can recall that used jazz need to revisit as the overall quality being presented is diminishing with each generation away from him.  Go back and look at those jazz sons and daughters JSF was selling.  Go back and look at the 8u sons Loving would offer.  You can't find that upper rib shape anywhere outside the jazz line.  If you want fleshing ease, in a level topline square set package, you'll find something not too far away from Jazz. 

 

[oakview]

My Jazz cattle absolutely could not perform with anything else I had.  Then there's the DS thing.  The white Jazz son I bought from Dean Fieser was the best Jazz son I ever saw.  After several offspring with deformed feet, he was gone. 

 

[aj]

Had a Jazz grandson that was big enough. I would say that jazz was a tool. There is no perfect bull. You breed jazz to 100 cows you will make progress and there will be some valuable cattle produced. Pick out the top one and make further improvement.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Roanoke Flashback sired by TPS Coronet Leader 21st was not a pud at all-He sired a bull called Studers Precision that Bradley Eisminger owned that sired some of the stoutest naturally thick deep ribbed cattle in one generation I ever saw out of cows like that  They just werent very stout cows  but the Precision calves all had the look-That bull was a changer-and Bradley had used top genetics for years O0

 

[RyanChandler]

My Jazz cattle absolutely could not perform with anything else I had.  Then there's the DS thing.  The white Jazz son I bought from Dean Fieser was the best Jazz son I ever saw.  After several offspring with deformed feet, he was gone.

Thats to be expected as the shorthorn genetics you prefer are deemed exclusively terminal by anyone who knows holstein from hereford.  If you want big boned flat sided huge long faced cattle that wean calves that are thin -aka green- then the terminal Trump mutants of your choice may be what youre after.  But reading the OP's comments it would seem as if he's interested in a much different type.  Notice out of all the bulls in the entire breed he was able to reduce the options down to four functional beef bulls, none of which you would consider using-- albeit all being substantially better than anything Ive known of you using.  I also find it intriguing how there are those with 6 cows who speak of the "several" deformities yet out of hundreds of calves ive had sired by 5 different jazz sons, I've never had a single notable issue.  Its truly a phenomenon how those whove used the Jazz line heavily report such different results than those who only use him as a 'reference sire.'  You'll play with genetics that are riddled with genuinely lethal genetic defects, but a non lethal that has a remote chance of any level of expression even in the homozygous state is oh no the sky is falling.