American Muscle Pic

[shortyjock89]

Sounds cool....I have a couple cows that i think would work well with A.M.  He looks like a big old deep bodied fella.  I have a Price James cow that would work well with him.  How much is the semen again?

 

[sjcattleco]

Just wanted to add that i found out that Gearld Fry will be promoting American Muscle and he will be a featured bull used by a new company being formed to raise  Gourmet Beef.....Sounds like a great breakthrough for Shorthorns...

 

[gocanes719]

No offense, but I really don't see this bull getting any run other than the folks on this board.  Only time will tell, but I believe there are better bulls out there for show cattle production.  This bull has obvious parts of him that aren't ideal for show cattle.  His 3/4 brother has the same problems.  Commercially, he may be really good from a carcass standpoint, for show cattle I am not buying in yet. :-\  Your confidence in your bull is great but I think you need to be careful to let his offspring do that talking.  Sell your semen to good customers with good cows and wait and see what happens.

For you guys looking for a clean low BW bull that will sire good show calves, Jake's proud Jazz looks like a great alternative.  You just have to breed him to something with some size. 

 

[sjcattleco]

No offense, but I really don't see this bull getting any run other than the folks on this board.  Only time will tell, but I believe there are better bulls out there for show cattle production.  This bull has obvious parts of him that aren't ideal for show cattle.  His 3/4 brother has the same problems.  Commercially, he may be really good from a carcass standpoint, for show cattle I am not buying in yet. :-\   Your confidence in your bull is great but I think you need to be careful to let his offspring do that talking.  Sell your semen to good customers with good cows and wait and see what happens.

For you guys looking for a clean low BW bull that will sire good show calves, Jake's proud Jazz looks like a great alternative.  You just have to breed him to something with some size. 

Hey it looks like we have some of the people from Breedsworld here NOW  Ohh boy!!

No offense taken.. But I think maybe you should understand what this bull is all about.  This bull was bred to fix show cattle not produce more of the same! I will have to argure the point that parts of him are not ideal... Depending on what school of thought you are from he his just about as ideal as you can get...  Maybe you should study your lessons  youngster!

(clapping) (lol)

 

[red]

Not everyone is going to see the same things that you do in any animal. I'm sure even the best Maine-Anjou, Angus or Shorthorn will have some people that it just doesn't click for them.
Remember Scott, you didn't like the Snow Flower cow & no one jumped on you for critizing her. It's all in what you like or want.

Just my 2 cents worth!

Red

 

[gocanes719]

I have nothing to do with breedersworld I am just being honest.  I am a vo ag teacher here in Texas for over 10 years so not really sure where the youngster part came in.  Your white calf doesn't even look like a premium steer down here at one of our majors.  He has a ton of body but he is really high flanked and his balance from the side is terrible in that picre.  It doens't matter how dam thick they are.  Most of todays cattle have enough muscle to begin with.  Your bull is marginal in his hind leg, runs down hill, is very coarse appearing in his head and neck.  Granted, he may be thick as a truck with a huge ass and top but if he can't give his offspring some style and some balance it isn't going to matter how thick they are.  I still stand by my statement that you need to let the bull do the talking.  Good Luck on all your semen sales.  I don't see Phil Lautner or Brad Hook on here hyping up their bulls.

 

[Telos]

It is my opinion that the best commercial beef cattle and the best in beef show cattle should be similar and serve the purpose of producing high quality beef efficiently in relation to their given environment. The physical profile of a good beef bull can have more then one certain kind of look as long as the economically important traits are sound and fault free. Consistency is a trait which I personally like to pay attention to, which sometimes gets overlooked when trying to breed great beef cattle.

Sorry for my simple minded views, but felt compelled to chime in on this issue. It's all about low input and maximizing output. No I don't use Ohlde's bulls, but think they are useful and appreciate his program.

 

[sjcattleco]

I have nothing to do with breedersworld I am just being honest.  I am a vo ag teacher here in Texas for over 10 years so not really sure where the youngster part came in.  Your white calf doesn't even look like a premium steer down here at one of our majors.  He has a ton of body but he is really high flanked and his balance from the side is terrible in that picre.  It doens't matter how dam thick they are.  Most of todays cattle have enough muscle to begin with.  Your bull is marginal in his hind leg, runs down hill, is very coarse appearing in his head and neck.  Granted, he may be thick as a truck with a huge ass and top but if he can't give his offspring some style and some balance it isn't going to matter how thick they are.  I still stand by my statement that you need to let the bull do the talking.  Good Luck on all your semen sales.  I don't see Phil Lautner or Brad Hook on here hyping up their bulls.

Hey you are entitled to your own opinion... I am just glad to know where it is coming from...

I am not Lautner or Hook and do not wish to be... infact that is the last thing I aspire to...And yes we will see but you do have to get a few folks to give him a try.... and as  side note  this did not really start out to be a promotion.... Elbee actually asked me to post the picture...

 

[Show Heifer]

I'm sorry, but I just can not let this one pass.
First off: Gocanes- I respect your opinion, as we all have them, but to critize a bull that someone is honestly trying to promote just irks me.  You don't have to like him, and I am glad you stated why you don't care for the bull, but to make the slam that lautner and hook weren't on here "hyping bulls" was an insult to SJCattle. As if they are the ones to look up to! I know enough about both lautner and hook and would NEVER aspire to be like them.  They both have an eye for cattle, but that is about where I have to stop complimenting them. And trust me, lautner and hook are both experts at hype, not so expert on other aspects of the human personality. SJ is simply trying to get his bull out into the public. I see nothing wrong with that.
You mentioned Jakes Proud Jazz, and so has several other folks on other boards. Guess what, I have NEVER heard a word of him until I read it on the boards. So does that make him bad? Does that make him less of a bull because NO ONE in this area has heard of him?
You critize AM on several things....have you looked at all the "popular AI bulls" without hair?? Come on, heat wave can hardly stand for Heavens sake! And Friction? Talk about high flanked! Major Money Man looks terriable in his pic yet seems to be popular! Dr. Hook is what I call a gutless wonder, with no rib. Have ya enver noticed that NO ONE has a picture of DeBull? Wonder why? Because he was injured as a calf and he is flat nasty looking. But that certainly hasn't slowed his semen sales.  WMW is known for his straight, crippled back legs, and he's considered a king.
Cunia was the ugliest thing that walked on four legs and he sure did leave his mark!!
I could go on, but I hope you get my point....that pictures only tell so much, and that hair can hide ANYTHING. Don't attack someone trying to honestly promote a bull that doesn't have 3 inches of hair to hide every line and lump.
But, welcome to the SP!  Where I will value your opinion, as long as you value mine, and as long as we remember, attacking and slamming is uncalled for, even when you disagree!  (clapping)
By the way, what part of Texas?  I hear the north part is getting pounded with storms! Are you avoiding them?

 

[stick]

canes, everyone is entitled to their opinions. Everyone  needs to use what works in their operation. Oh, by the way, don't go to Scott's web site because if you don't appreciate AM, you would probably absolutely hate Gizmo's Image. I know both would work for me.

 

[gocanes719]

I'm sorry, but I just can not let this one pass.
First off: Gocanes- I respect your opinion, as we all have them, but to critize a bull that someone is honestly trying to promote just irks me.  You don't have to like him, and I am glad you stated why you don't care for the bull, but to make the slam that lautner and hook weren't on here "hyping bulls" was an insult to SJCattle. As if they are the ones to look up to! I know enough about both lautner and hook and would NEVER aspire to be like them.  They both have an eye for cattle, but that is about where I have to stop complimenting them. And trust me, lautner and hook are both experts at hype, not so expert on other aspects of the human personality. SJ is simply trying to get his bull out into the public. I see nothing wrong with that.
You mentioned Jakes Proud Jazz, and so has several other folks on other boards. Guess what, I have NEVER heard a word of him until I read it on the boards. So does that make him bad? Does that make him less of a bull because NO ONE in this area has heard of him?
You critize AM on several things....have you looked at all the "popular AI bulls" without hair?? Come on, heat wave can hardly stand for Heavens sake! And Friction? Talk about high flanked! Major Money Man looks terriable in his pic yet seems to be popular! Dr. Hook is what I call a gutless wonder, with no rib. Have ya enver noticed that NO ONE has a picture of DeBull? Wonder why? Because he was injured as a calf and he is flat nasty looking. But that certainly hasn't slowed his semen sales.  WMW is known for his straight, crippled back legs, and he's considered a king.
Cunia was the ugliest thing that walked on four legs and he sure did leave his mark!!
I could go on, but I hope you get my point....that pictures only tell so much, and that hair can hide ANYTHING. Don't attack someone trying to honestly promote a bull that doesn't have 3 inches of hair to hide every line and lump.
But, welcome to the SP!  Where I will value your opinion, as long as you value mine, and as long as we remember, attacking and slamming is uncalled for, even when you disagree!  (clapping)
By the way, what part of Texas?  I hear the north part is getting pounded with storms! Are you avoiding them?

I have seen Jazz and his calves at Glover's they are small at birth, small framed (maybe a little to small for some) sound, thick and hairy as alpacas.  I am not promoting any bulls on here.  I am just saying enough is enough on the hyping of the bull intended or not.  Get the semen out and let's see what happens.  I have not slammed anyone.  You can hear worse comments at shows then you have seen me write on here.  I am not trying to be rude at all just stating what I think and I think others are on the same page with me based on the feedback I am getting from others.

 

[Show Heifer]

He is trying to get the bull out, and info too.  And that is enough about that!! ;D

But again, I would like to welcome you to this board....being an FFA instructor, you should have lots of info to share on this board!!! Hope you continue to visit!

 

[gocanes719]

CB-3  You go ahead and do what you said in this post and let me know how it works.  SJ ought to put you on his payroll.  You probably have on an "American Muscle" hat right now, don't you?

 

[Show Heifer]

Canes, I am sorry you have something personal against SJcattle and AM.
May I ask, since you are an educator (which grade to you teach?), which bulls you are using, and what type of cow your using them on? Are you producing breeding stock, commercial, or show steers? Or do you have cows at all?  Just wanting to know where your coming from.

 

[justme]

Wow, this post went to a place where it wasn't intended....Come on guys, no need to go this route.  Canes, you'll find out were a tight knit community on our planet here.  If you don't want to read a post just don't read it, simple as that.  Scott was ASKED  to post the picture and we all asked questions.

By the way...they better not be wearing America  Muscle hats...I didn't make them LOL  There another case of self promotion www.funkystitches.com  (clapping) (lol)

 

[gocanes719]

Canes, I am sorry you have something personal against SJcattle and AM.
May I ask, since you are an educator (which grade to you teach?), which bulls you are using, and what type of cow your using them on? Are you producing breeding stock, commercial, or show steers? Or do you have cows at all?  Just wanting to know where your coming from.

I have nothing personal against anyone on here.  I just gave my opinion.  Don't really understand what the relevance is as far as what grades I teach.  We have a small cattle operation where we sell show steers and heifers.  I also trade a few calves as well that others raise. 

CB_3 thought he needed to educate me on a few things that I really don't feel I need.  I am not touching this thread anymore.  I understand everyone is close on this board...sometimes to close, there is no objectivity.  People can't offer their opinions without others coming to their defense, it is pretty sad.  SJ told me what he wanted to and we could have left it at that but others felt the need to come behind him and defend his honor.

 

[Telos]

Difference of opinions is always a good thing, IMO. It help us think more objectively. I do feel, many times, there is a nicer or more diplomatic approach to expressing our views as apposed to being boarderline rude.  Sometimes we sure can come across sounding arrogant and rude.

 

[garybob]

Sr. Gocanes, what part of Texas are you from? Just fir argument's sake, can you remember when you esteemed Tejanos all said that NOBODY would ever take Shorthorns for serious because they were too tall and angular? Now, you guys are saying American Muscle needs to go to bigger cows. First of all, Scott IS geting the bull out there for people to use. The bull's calves ARE going to speak very well for the Bull as a Sire. I've never met a single one of you Texas Ag-Teachers or Country Agents that weren't so critical of others' cattle. I lived in Eagle Pass for a while, and attended a few regional shows as a curious bystander. Never met a more corrupt, backstabbing bunch of jerks. This was my impression of you"Educators" in Texas. Be friendly with one another one minute, then call somebody a "beaner-lover" because he brought his Hispanic kids up from the river to a show.Maybe this comes from the more competitive nature of your profession, as comparted to your peers in other states. Never felt comfortable in the situation, so, my step-kids never showed calves and goats. Mariana REALLY wanted to try it, but, I will never allow " mi Hija" to be in such an amoral, cut-throat, dog-eat-dog environment. Stay in your communities and teach a balanced, total program to all students, not just the ranchers' kids and the kids of parents with $$$$. If you want to be THAT way, get your coaching liscence, and Coach Football. What, exactly, DO you guys do with the kids left with a Substitute Teacher 5 months out of an Instructional Year, anyway?

Now,that is my 2-cents-worth.

No offense, but I really don't see this bull getting any run other than the folks on this board.  Only time will tell, but I believe there are better bulls out there for show cattle production.  This bull has obvious parts of him that aren't ideal for show cattle.  His 3/4 brother has the same problems.  Commercially, he may be really good from a carcass standpoint, for show cattle I am not buying in yet. :-\   Your confidence in your bull is great but I think you need to be careful to let his offspring do that talking.  Sell your semen to good customers with good cows and wait and see what happens.

For you guys looking for a clean low BW bull that will sire good show calves, Jake's proud Jazz looks like a great alternative.  You just have to breed him to something with some size. 

???

 

[knabe]

I think the discussion has been interesting.  there is no "tightness" on the board, just a personality that comments don't get pulled because someone has strong words.  i like the comments about functional cattle for their location, which seems to get lost in the show steer world.  if we aren't breeding show steers to excel at carcass as well, well, i guess i am confused.   

What are some regional difference in show steers other than ear, or does everyone have to sift through all the fuzzy cripples and at the show, watch the butts move like bee bonnets when they walk?  Though i have mixed feelings about slick shows, i know i don't like the overemphasis on fuzz.

to me, a show steer should be one that excels at carcass, but has some conformation faults, perhaps fit in the middle sexual phenotype wise, otherwise he would have been a bull.  it seems sad we are breeding cows to be more like steers and breeding bulls to look more like females.  i wonder what the long term consequences are if we are not checking for long term fertility.  what is the age range of a bull going sterile after intense collection. 

 

[farmboy]

IF NOBODY HAS ANYTHING NICE TO SAY, I'D GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO THEIR OPINIONS BUT TOTALLY MIS-INTERPRETTING THE SITUATION THEN BEING A SMARTASS AND THEN BLOWING IT OUT OF THE WATER. THIS BULL IS MOST LIKELY NOT THE BEST OR HAS KNOCKOUT CALVES. HE'S GONNA PUT SOME MORE MEAT ON THE BONE AND I THOUGHT THATS WHY WE RAISED STEERS, FOR MEAT PRODUCTION. SO ANYBODY WITH A MOUTH THAT KEEPS RUNNIN', PLEASE GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO CRITIZIZE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DO IT


Respectfully,
Zach