NWSS Photographer NEW PICTURE!!!

[zapper]

knabe, I think you are just alittle off base here.  I did not take the original post as bad mouthing!  They simply asked for opinions on the photo that they paid for.  Many on this board have suggested they would not be satisfied with this photo, nor would I.   This was the NWSS not a local county fair, the photo area should have been presentable regardless of when the photo was taken.  

 

[usu265]

knabe, i see some of your points, but your way off base on some. how is it box6rranch's responsibility to fix the mat? you said "why didn't you bring one" ..... i'm sure every exhibitor just has time to run back to the stall and grab a fresh one (who would think of this before the show with a million other important things on the mind before a show and especially on show day?) or get down and scrub it. its probably not even the photographers responsibility and someone who works at the NWSS to take care of it. thats just a ridiculous comment on this topic.

 

[box6rranch]

I originally posted this for others opinions and experiences with this photography company. I feel that there have been many folks who have taken the time to respond and offer their suggestions, thank you. I never professed to being a professional photographer. However when we attend a prestigious show such as the National Western Stock Show it would be my assumption that they would have hired professionally trained photographers in the area of livestock photography. I'm not sure why you would feel that it would be the participants responsibility to make sure the photo area was clean and up to par. The photographer is getting paid for their work wouldn't you assume that be part of their responsibilities or that of the NWSS?
The photographer should have instructed the handler to set up the animal for a prime photo. The angle the picture was taken from was totally wrong and warped and didn't  portray the best profile of the animal. The pictures we took from home were focused on the animal and not the back drop. In anticipation of taking a photo that we planned on distributing of course we would have picked a better background.
This is a topic forum, of course positive and negative comments on numerous subject are going to be discussed.
Thanks guys for your support on this topic. I didn't think I was that far off base

 

[knabe]

at the biggest show in the land, (probably), ie more head of cattle, and therefore more pee and pooh on the matt, it would make sense that one can't possibly blame this on the photographer, UNLESS, this was specifically their photo booth and not the fair.

i didn't view any of my comments as negative, just what is.

since neither you or the photographer talked about the issue before the picture, there is room for blame to go around.

as for the perspective, i'm still with the photogs perspective versus yours, again, just my opinion, not negative or positive.

i didn't say box6rranch should have done anything.  i said they could have done something if they noticed, but they didn't, at least regarding the issue with the pic.

ususally, when taking pictures, the photographer positions themselves in a relatively small area, while the subject is usually in the same position as well.  something went wrong in the picture, and i just have a problem with always throwing blame, after the fact when observations were made before and after the fact.

i'm just saying the photographer ain't here to defend their position, and harping on them is bad form.  discuss it with them in private.  if they don't satisfy, use someone else.

was the situation hurried,  what other things may have led to the situation??

i'm still on base, let alone way off base.  throwing someone's name around in a forum is more off base than defending them, which is why some people don't post on sites, especially well known people.  that's why posts get pulled, which i would do on this one at this point since someone's name is mentioned.

perhaps a different alternative might have been to discuss the situation with the photographer, express your dissatisfaction, and see what they would do.  sometimes when you keep things private, they can work out.  sometimes these situations are viewed as an opportunity by the party that comprimised for whatever reason and didn't perform up to snuff.

since my comments are one of the few that disagree with yours, i guess i suck.  i don't view mine as negative or positive, just what is.

again, this responsibility issue.  you are part of the team.  it is part of YOUR responsibility, if not the ultimate responsibility.  life is OUR responsibility.  IT IS ALWAYS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARTICIPANT.  YOU PAY FOR IT.  DEMAND BETTER ON THE SPOT.  GO DEEEEEEMAND THAT NWSS CLEAN THAT POOH UP. 

for some reason, you seem focused on what everyone else should do.  that's the problem i have with the issue.

 

[OH Breeder]

i'm still on base, let alone way off base.  throwing someone's name around in a forum is more off base than defending them, which is why some people don't post on sites, especially well known people.  that's why posts get pulled, which i would do on this one at this point since someone's name is mentioned.

perhaps a different alternative might have been to discuss the situation with the photographer, express your dissatisfaction, and see what they would do.  sometimes when you keep things private, they can work out.  sometimes these situations are viewed as an opportunity by the party that comprimised for whatever reason and didn't perform up to snuff.

Does that mean we can pull all the Obama post....

 

[OH Breeder]

Browarny to me is no more a person than Microsoft.If Browarny himself were traveling and taking all the photos then I would ahve to agree with you. Browarny has become a large machine. If they have a host of photographers then they are a business like everyone else. JMO

 

[justme]

Knabe, when was the last time you had your cattle's picture?  At times its a nightmare.  The photographer has a hard job to do, but it is there responsibility to guide you and your animal to a good picture.  The Royal went to showchampions for pictures and they were great.  Love bringing an usb home with my pictures that day. 

With the outrageous cost of pictures these days at shows, I believe its there job to use there expertise to obtain the right angle, backdrop, ect.  They are hired because of there skill, and we pay them for it

I've been on both sides,  I use to take pictures for weddings, sr, and livestock before digitial got big.  I had one wedding that we had problems.  I charged them nothing for my services that day.  My fault not theres.

I just wish they would also get some patience with the younger showmen.  My son had his first "real" show at the Royal and they didn't have many patience with him.  At one point my son said "excuse me, can you calm down a minute and let me do my thing?"  the photographer finally laughed and smiled and calmed down a little bit.

 

[knabe]

legally, there is a difference, and more to the point, i don't make comments about obama, only his deeds and the deeds of his associates.

if obama calls for transparency, show me the birth certificate and college records.

 

[knabe]

Knabe, when was the last time you had your cattle's picture?  At times its a nightmare.

I just wish they would also get some patience with the younger showmen.  My son had his first "real" show at the Royal and they didn't have many patience with him.  At one point my son said "excuse me, can you calm down a minute and let me do my thing?"  the photographer finally laughed and smiled and calmed down a little bit.

as a feeding trial photographer for 3 years where i understand how long it takes to photograph cattle not on a halter with absolutely no handling and with only 1 helper and still getting the staggered feet placement on every animal.

my point is just what you pointed out, there was interraction, and then a resolution, rather than dealing with it after the fact.

my point is, bring it up then, don't be passive and non-interactive.

and for the record, the last time i had pictures of my cattle was about 1988.

the point of the discussion was to bring up comments on both sides of the issue, and not just slam one's that are on the other.

 

[shortyjock89]

I don't know if this is what happened, but sometimes when the photog. says the pic is good enough, people take their word for it.  It gets SO busy where the pics are taken for the shows on the Hill, with two breeds going, and then the pic area is also the make up ring...it's just hectic and I don't think blame should be put on either party in this instance. 

My best advice is to try to get a better picture at your house.

 

[box6rranch]

Oh brother..................knabe did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?????????
Are you just arguing for the sake of argument?
Ahhhhhhhhh just read your post. No wonder you are taking this so personal. You should know better than most that you can't go back after the fact and retake a photo of an animal that's been fit. In this instance with this backdrop it was a moment in time. When the picture is taken who knows better than the photographer what the end result is going to look like. Can the person who's up there trying to position the animal see what's on the picture frame?
That's why you use a professional photographer. They are hired based on their expertise.
I understand you are testy because this was or is your profession but you would expect no less from any other type of service provider.....would you?

 

[OH Breeder]

I know this isn't much help and you probably already know this. But, when we take pictures I have a large out door pen. We bed it down with Straw or cornstalks. For every good photo we get I have to take 25 it seems like. I would suggest trying that in a pen at home. Just grab your self a 5 gallon bucket and snap away. About half of the ones you think will turn out do'nt look so hot on the computer. Just a thought....

 

[box6rranch]

Thank you! I really appreciate all the advice on how to get a better picture of our bull. I guess what I'm frustrated about is the fact we wanted a decent picture of our bull with the National Western Stock Show logo and the ribbon won.
I've attached a picture that we did take of our other bull during his show days. What do you think of it?

 

[OH Breeder]

Great picture and looks like you got the idea. I know what you mean. Would have been nice to have that photo becz it is an honor at such a top notch show. Several different angles always help promote the bull/heifer.

 

[N2ShowN]

If the photographer was charging for a service that they are providing then they have an obligation in my opinion to make sure that their work is quality.  The customer has every right to disagree with the quality of the outcome.  If that photographer was working all weekend in that area then who better to know what the challenges of the space were.  The reason we have professionals take pictures is because they are supposed to be doing a better job than we can.  Also in the age of digital it does not take anything to clean up a shot like that.  I spent about 30 seconds on that picture and was able to send box6rranch a much neater looking version of that photo.  When I take photos I make sure that the customer either receives the edited version or understands that they can pick pictures and that I will do corrections to the ones they pick.  Just another opinion

N2ShowN

 

[knabe]

No wonder you are taking this so personal.  not really seeing where emotion is involved in any of my comments.

You should know better than most that you can't go back after the fact and retake a photo of an animal that's been fit. which is why i made the comments i did, that photos are a partnership and participants should be more aware and not take it for granted.

That's why you use a professional photographer. They are hired based on their expertise.  i agree.

I understand you are testy.  i am not being testy.  i am just disagreeing with you.

because this was  your profession but you would expect no less from any other type of service provider.....would you?  i expect a lot. but humans are human. i was offering input for what one could do and intercept the situation at the moment in time rather than after the fact.
[/quote]

 

[LoVeShOrThOrNs]

Hi everyone- I am the showman in the picture and I have a couple of comments on what has been said.
First, why would I bring a mat with me up to the show ring and waste even more time setting it down, making sure it looks good and what not when its the photographers job to produce a good picture and make sure his area is clean and presentable anyways?? ???
Second, again why would I sit there and how would I know where the photographer should be positioned when I am holding the cow, I have no idea whatsoever what my bull looks like from the front when I am standing back there. A photographer should have much more knowledge as to where he should stand, have  the cow positioned, etc...especially if he has been doing it for a while.
So in my opinion there really is no excuse from the photographer why this picture turned out so crappy, if it were my decision I would not hire that photographer to shoot for such a big show ever again. But again that is just my opinion. ;D

 

[CPL]

I think we need to remember who is the customer here. Obiviously this is a case of poor customer service. Hopefully they will end up making it right. All I know is that from the photos I've seen of the Hereford Champions, none are this bad.

 

[knabe]

why would anybody do anything?   we should have vigilante squads at cattle shows to better solve disputes as actually expressing dissatisfaction with the party involved is counterproductive.

i'm betting that if you just called the company in question, that this could have been resolved.

because you feel vindicated airing this on a thread, this somehow validates your position.

i have taken no position on this matter other than to say call them up, tell them you were disappointed and see what they will do.

i guess that method has never worked for anyone in any area of commerce ever.

do they have a satisfaction guarantee?

i thought showman were the experts on where cattle were supposed to stand, isn't that their job?  if they don't have an idea of putting the front feet on the pedestal, and tilting the rear end a little bit towards the photographer after watching countless shows and pictures, maybe we should have a regulation that showers go through some sort of standardized training.  after watching countless photographers operate, things should have looked a little out of place.  what is so hard about asking a question when your sixth sense is on alert.

one could hope things would change.  

here's how i would change them.  outlaw the pedestal altogether and take pictures on flat ground.

 

[box6rranch]

ok folks........I did contact the photographer's office by e-mail this morning. They were prompt in their response asking for the particular photos I was referring to. They responded by giving me the photographer's name who took the shots and that they would following up on it and would be back in touch. knabe, breathe easy I don't intent on publishing his name :O)
If you go to their website you can review numerous pictures that were taken at the show. It's obvious that other photos taken had the same issues as mine. I view this as a win win situation. Now because of this post both the showmen and the photographers should have a sense of enlightenment when they are taking/posing for a picture with their animals. It's a learning experience and I'm thankful for the positive posts and suggestions I've received :O)