PHA calf video

[CAB]

  Marc, It was hook worms that cost the south the civil war according to Oz. Brent

 

[knabe]

CAB, you're right.  another oprah watcher? ;D

but wasn't it because of the shoes?

was only "grazing", there wasn't anything for free under the couch.

 

[CAB]

In MO, it took us literally 3 to 4 decades to propagate the PHA-Th defects to the point where we are @ today. It will take some time to clean it up, but with rules set up by the asso. will speed things up a lot. We'll see rapid improvement right away. Watch & see what happens to the price of carrier bulls verses clean. Who on this board would buy either a PHA or TH carrier? I doubt anyone. That in itself is going to drive commercial bull breeders to clean up their own herds. I've asked for suggestions for clean bulls that will compete in the showring and am always looking. It's the reason that I was asking about Free & Clear. Double clean Heat Wave X Epinal. Could have been double dirty. It will be interesting seeing how fast we can clean it up. I know of some clubbie bull promoters that are not @ all interested in buying carrier bulls already. Brent

 

[CAB]

Yeah Marc, it was b/c they didn't have enough shoes, therefore the hookworms entered through their feet. I can't sleep sometimes. Oprah has reruns @ midnight here, or if I have to venture out to ck cows in the brisk Iowa winter nites, it takes me a bit to shake that cool air off. Brent

 

[DL]

I'm not saying I wouldn't use or keep a carrier - it really depends on the cow, situation, etc.  It's just that I feel that there should be disclosure.  Look at HYPP and AQHA - right on the papers. 

it is on the papers for maine's, indicated with results obtained by parentage (both clear), or by test.  i don't know if anyone has ever had their papers indicate a PHAC individual yet.

knabe - my understanding regarding "free by parentage" is that both parents must be tested free and on file (it may be as confusing as ELDU, maybe more so) - so just because it looks "free by parentage" it won't say it on the papers unless both parents are tested and on file

kanshow - not sure I would use the AQHA as a paragon of virtue with regard to genetic defects - the AQHA has continues to reward that "type" in the show ring and now decades later finally (as I think I understand it) will not longer register HYPP animals -sometime - 2010?

GB - you betcha!

 

[kanshow]

DL the reason I was using AQHA as an example is that they have been recording it and if you have a horse with that parentage it states right on the paper.  I'm not condoning anything else. 

 

[dori36]

Sadly, some of the percentage Lowlines have been crossed with Shorthorn & Maine's that are "known" PHA & TH carriers.  Even a few potenial carriers have been sold at the National Sale.  I have never heard the words TH or PHA ever mentioned by a Lowline breeder & it will be a sad day when one of those percentage Lowlines has a PHA or TH calf & the owner will likely be totally clueless as to why it happened.  Without education & testing, sooner or later, it will happen & the owner is going to be awfully upset. 

Actually, Rocky Mtn Lowlines (Dana & Rick Sekich) and Melanie Schroeder (my longtime fitter and shower) have talked at length about both PHA and TH.  Rocky Mtn is using a few SH's to cross w/Lowline genetics but they  have been tested.  Maybe it would be a good topic to focus on at next year's banquet/meeting?

 

[Doc]

I just keep thinking of the poor person who is just getting into the breed or a first time calf kid that buys into this problem.  Seems like there ought to be some ethics inolved.. 

That's why people like DL and myself take our chosen stance on this issue.

GB

Careful garybob, you will get lumped in with DL and I, and you may not want that!!!

I think the maines and shorties should have to require a PHA/TH test regardless of parentage and have the results on the registration paper.  That way no  "confusion" could be had with clean vs. carrier pedigrees.  Plus, never have figured out how some people decide whether it is a AI calf or bull bred calf when they AI then turn the bull out. Hmmmmm.....

That would get pretty expensive having to test everything. That's why I shipped my brother to Sabre, because he tested THC & I didn't want to have to test every calf.

 

[DL]

Sadly, some of the percentage Lowlines have been crossed with Shorthorn & Maine's that are "known" PHA & TH carriers.  Even a few potenial carriers have been sold at the National Sale.  I have never heard the words TH or PHA ever mentioned by a Lowline breeder & it will be a sad day when one of those percentage Lowlines has a PHA or TH calf & the owner will likely be totally clueless as to why it happened.  Without education & testing, sooner or later, it will happen & the owner is going to be awfully upset. 

Actually, Rocky Mtn Lowlines (Dana & Rick Sekich) and Melanie Schroeder (my longtime fitter and shower) have talked at length about both PHA and TH.  Rocky Mtn is using a few SH's to cross w/Lowline genetics but they  have been tested.  Maybe it would be a good topic to focus on at next year's banquet/meeting?

dori & TJ
If you decide to do that I have pictures (video) and other stuff you could use....DL

 

[dori36]

<<dori & TJ
If you decide to do that I have pictures (video) and other stuff you could use....DL>>

I'm pretty much out of active Lowline breeding now, but I will suggest to the "powers that be" that they consider this topic for future seminars.  Do you ever go to NWSS, DL?  Have you spoken in a public venue about PHA & TH?  I'd not want to take your materials and try to do the presentation without you.  Let's stay in touch!

 

[TJ]

Duly noted Red. Thank you.
  TJ, seeing that LOwlines are relatively a newer breed, why doesn't the breed asso. address the question of PHA & TH now rather than wait for it to become as wide spread as it is in the SHs & Maines. Wouldn't that just make common sense?
   Was it posted up on this board about the Durham Red's policing TH, but not policing PHA? If so, that makes no sense to me at all.

Sorry for not responding quicker!!

Just to be clear, Lowlines are TH & PHA free, as far as I know.  However, in the "Percentage Registery" (similar to Shorthorn + & Maintainer) some of those animals are part Shorthorn & Maine. 

IMHO, the only reason they aren't policing it yet, is because they haven't had a problem with it, since it takes 2 carrier animals to produce a problem.  Many on the ALR Board, & the membership as a whole, probably don't know what TH or PHA is and/or don't think that it is an issue and/or don't care.  But eventually, and it may be years, 2 percentage carrier animals will be mated & the results are going to be BAD!! 

Personally, I would like to see mandatory testing of any percentage animals that contain any Maine or Shorthorn, but I am not on the ALR Board.  I do know some people on the board & I am going to talk to them about this issue.  If nothing else an article in the Lowline Ledger might be appropriate. 

BTW, as soon as I get a website going, I plan to address the TH & PHA issue, as well as a few others (nothing like rocking the boat)...     

 

[TJ]

Sadly, some of the percentage Lowlines have been crossed with Shorthorn & Maine's that are "known" PHA & TH carriers.  Even a few potenial carriers have been sold at the National Sale.  I have never heard the words TH or PHA ever mentioned by a Lowline breeder & it will be a sad day when one of those percentage Lowlines has a PHA or TH calf & the owner will likely be totally clueless as to why it happened.  Without education & testing, sooner or later, it will happen & the owner is going to be awfully upset. 

Actually, Rocky Mtn Lowlines (Dana & Rick Sekich) and Melanie Schroeder (my longtime fitter and shower) have talked at length about both PHA and TH.  Rocky Mtn is using a few SH's to cross w/Lowline genetics but they  have been tested.  Maybe it would be a good topic to focus on at next year's banquet/meeting?

^ Those people are knowledgable & they care.  I don't personally know Melanie, but the Sekich's left a positive impression & some Tarentaise breeders that I know, who were their neighbors, said the same thing. 

I also don't think that this is a widespread issue at all, but a Lowline sired bred heifer, out of an "All About You" daughter (known carrier of TH) topped the National Sale, a couple of years ago, and I never heard 1 word mentioned about TH or PHA or if it was tested.  Maybe they did mentione it, I just never heard a word about it.  But, it's not just the sales, I caught wind of someone who was selling several 1/2 Lowline X Shorthorns & then found out that they traced back to "Double Stuff" (PHA & TH carrier).         

Yes, I agree that this topic needs to be addressed.  I have spoken with a few about this issue, but not nearly enough. 


       

 

[TJ]

Sadly, some of the percentage Lowlines have been crossed with Shorthorn & Maine's that are "known" PHA & TH carriers.  Even a few potenial carriers have been sold at the National Sale.  I have never heard the words TH or PHA ever mentioned by a Lowline breeder & it will be a sad day when one of those percentage Lowlines has a PHA or TH calf & the owner will likely be totally clueless as to why it happened.  Without education & testing, sooner or later, it will happen & the owner is going to be awfully upset. 

Actually, Rocky Mtn Lowlines (Dana & Rick Sekich) and Melanie Schroeder (my longtime fitter and shower) have talked at length about both PHA and TH.  Rocky Mtn is using a few SH's to cross w/Lowline genetics but they  have been tested.  Maybe it would be a good topic to focus on at next year's banquet/meeting?

dori & TJ
If you decide to do that I have pictures (video) and other stuff you could use....DL

Thank you!  I may be contacting you fairly soon about this issue.

 

[garybob]

Sadly, some of the percentage Lowlines have been crossed with Shorthorn & Maine's that are "known" PHA & TH carriers.  Even a few potenial carriers have been sold at the National Sale.  I have never heard the words TH or PHA ever mentioned by a Lowline breeder & it will be a sad day when one of those percentage Lowlines has a PHA or TH calf & the owner will likely be totally clueless as to why it happened.  Without education & testing, sooner or later, it will happen & the owner is going to be awfully upset. 

Actually, Rocky Mtn Lowlines (Dana & Rick Sekich) and Melanie Schroeder (my longtime fitter and shower) have talked at length about both PHA and TH.  Rocky Mtn is using a few SH's to cross w/Lowline genetics but they  have been tested.  Maybe it would be a good topic to focus on at next year's banquet/meeting?

dori & TJ
If you decide to do that I have pictures (video) and other stuff you could use....DL

Thank you!  I may be contacting you fairly soon about this issue.

When this happens, and, it WILL happen, the ENTIRE Shorthorn breed will get blamed (and banned), not just ''carrier lines''. I blame the show-ring people for this.

GB

 

[Jill]

Sadly, some of the percentage Lowlines have been crossed with Shorthorn & Maine's that are "known" PHA & TH carriers.  Even a few potenial carriers have been sold at the National Sale.  I have never heard the words TH or PHA ever mentioned by a Lowline breeder & it will be a sad day when one of those percentage Lowlines has a PHA or TH calf & the owner will likely be totally clueless as to why it happened.  Without education & testing, sooner or later, it will happen & the owner is going to be awfully upset. 

Actually, Rocky Mtn Lowlines (Dana & Rick Sekich) and Melanie Schroeder (my longtime fitter and shower) have talked at length about both PHA and TH.  Rocky Mtn is using a few SH's to cross w/Lowline genetics but they  have been tested.  Maybe it would be a good topic to focus on at next year's banquet/meeting?

dori & TJ
If you decide to do that I have pictures (video) and other stuff you could use....DL

Thank you!  I may be contacting you fairly soon about this issue.

When this happens, and, it WILL happen, the ENTIRE Shorthorn breed will get blamed (and banned), not just ''carrier lines''. I blame the show-ring people for this.

GB

From what I have seen, you blame the show ring people for everything.  There doesn't seem to be much about Shorthorns that you DO like, why not find a breed that more "fits" your program?

 

[garybob]

Sadly, some of the percentage Lowlines have been crossed with Shorthorn & Maine's that are "known" PHA & TH carriers.  Even a few potenial carriers have been sold at the National Sale.  I have never heard the words TH or PHA ever mentioned by a Lowline breeder & it will be a sad day when one of those percentage Lowlines has a PHA or TH calf & the owner will likely be totally clueless as to why it happened.  Without education & testing, sooner or later, it will happen & the owner is going to be awfully upset. 

Actually, Rocky Mtn Lowlines (Dana & Rick Sekich) and Melanie Schroeder (my longtime fitter and shower) have talked at length about both PHA and TH.  Rocky Mtn is using a few SH's to cross w/Lowline genetics but they  have been tested.  Maybe it would be a good topic to focus on at next year's banquet/meeting?

dori & TJ
If you decide to do that I have pictures (video) and other stuff you could use....DL

Thank you!  I may be contacting you fairly soon about this issue.

When this happens, and, it WILL happen, the ENTIRE Shorthorn breed will get blamed (and banned), not just ''carrier lines''. I blame the show-ring people for this.

GB

From what I have seen, you blame the show ring people for everything.  There doesn't seem to be much about Shorthorns that you DO like, why not find a breed that more "fits" your program?

Ma'am, I would like to see the breed go back to ones in my memeory. Heck, my Grandpa used 'em in his Commercial Herd in the '70's. What about that equates, in your mind, to Me not liking the Shorthorn Breed?
Too often, Y'all get Misty-eyed talking about Ron Bolze, and, all the good He tried to do for the Breed. When someone like Myself gets on here, and says the same thing, except tried to actually put it out there in direct,not-too-difficult-to-understand language, You guys in the ClubCalf Biz get all bent out of shape.
I Love this Breed.
Ma'am, who are you to tell me otherwise?
GB

 

[knabe]

yikes

 

[KDSC]

think he can scratch his brain??? ;D

 

[Telos]

Knabe, I can't  decide which is more disgusting... Your guy with the finger or DL's PHA video?  (lol)

 

[DL]

Knabe, I can't  decide which is more disgusting... Your guy with the finger or DL's PHA video?  (lol)

telos - the guy with the finger is a photoshop special - the PHA video is reality TV!