Shorty hf bulls

[aj]

There you have it. They key to expansion of the Shorthorn breed is positive propaganda on the Shorthorn breed. The commercial producers are so stupid aren't they? ;D

 

[jaimiediamond]

There you have it. They key to expansion of the Shorthorn breed is positive propaganda on the Shorthorn breed. The commercial producers are so stupid aren't they? ;D

Seems to me that if you have a product and you are negative about it that you are doing things wrong.  JIT is doing things right, he is positive and the commercial cattle man loves his product as it truly works for them.  Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. So yes we use propaganda.  By the way aj if there is so much wrong with the breed why do you bother working with  Shorthorn genetics at all?  There are actually breeders out there with the commercial man in mind and they work on expanding that market.  In the end you know we accomplish more with positive energy rather than negative. 

 

[justintime]

There you have it. They key to expansion of the Shorthorn breed is positive propaganda on the Shorthorn breed. The commercial producers are so stupid aren't they? ;D

aj... again ( why am I not surprised anymore) you have completely misread the comments. All I said was I have had many commercial cattlemen tell me that they read Steerplanet on a very regular basis. When I was delivering bulls last spring, a rancher with 800 cows said he reads Steerplanet very morning when he is having his morning coffee and he also checks it every night before going to bed. I have had many other people tell me they lurk on here. The biggest cattle buyer in this area ( he averages a few thousand head a week) is on here regularly. I expect there are far more people who read this site than any of us ever expect. That is all I am saying. Now please explain to me where anyone but youself said that commercial producers are so stupid... or where the key to expansion of the Shorthorn breed is positive propaganda? Your words not mine, or anyone else's.

 On that topic, all I will say is that negativity breeds negativity, and you are a master at that! The old saying "that you attract more flies with sugar than with vingear" could have some truth in this regard.  I will go on record and say that commercial producers are some of the most educated and smartest people in this business. They have to be in order to survive. I also find most commercial producers are very positive thinkers, or they would have left this business years ago.

 

[Shorthorns4us]

JIT-- Amen to having a positive attitude in this business or you won't be around for long.. (clapping)

Great comments folks!  Now just asking for a bit of advice from everyone- I am working on promoting my cattle and trying to get more people to come and visit my herd.  Any ideas on how to get all types of breeders-- the well knowns, small breeder, medium breeder, etc? 
I advertise in livestock publications, advertise locally, am involved in our association, try to network whenever I can,  Basically I am banging my head trying to figure out how to get people to visit.  I admit that I am an unknown and small breeder.  Are the larger breeders afraid to visit due the fact that I am unknown and small?  I am really laying it out by asking this question.  Basically, I'm almost down to begging people to give me a chance to even visit.
Pretty pathetic, aren't I ???
Just wearin my heart on my sleeve today.

 

[Okotoks]

JIT-- Amen to having a positive attitude in this business or you won't be around for long.. (clapping)

Great comments folks!  Now just asking for a bit of advice from everyone- I am working on promoting my cattle and trying to get more people to come and visit my herd.  Any ideas on how to get all types of breeders-- the well knowns, small breeder, medium breeder, etc? 
I advertise in livestock publications, advertise locally, am involved in our association, try to network whenever I can,   Basically I am banging my head trying to figure out how to get people to visit.  I admit that I am an unknown and small breeder.  Are the larger breeders afraid to visit due the fact that I am unknown and small?  I am really laying it out by asking this question.  Basically, I'm almost down to begging people to give me a chance to even visit.
Pretty pathetic, aren't I ???
Just wearin my heart on my sleeve today.

Visiting other breeders is one of my favorite things to do but I find I seldom get a chance. We used to take cattle to the pens in Denver and I found it a great way to meet a lot of commercial breeders and purebred breeders of every size operation. Our goal was to promote the type of cattle we raised. It was a very good venue for that. Might be something to consider if you could put a pen of 3 together. We also did the Hill but wasn't nearly as good for our purpose. We stopped going for a couple of yeras then the border closed for a few. It was a 20 to 24 hour trip for us with the border etc. but well worth it. We hope to get back there one year.

 

[r.n.reed]

Shorthorns4us,I have found that advertising is real hard to measure the results on but it does pay.It also makes it hard when you only have a few head to spread the cost over.Just make sure your efforts are pointed at your targeted audience and that you have a distinct message and do it regularly.Getting people to your farm is an age old problem and probably why shows were started way back when.The nice thing about a herd visit is you can really study the program.It's a battle at a show aisle to find someone who can tell  you the calving interval on the dam of their bull calf and then you have to hope you can hear them over the fans,blowers and radios

 

[Okotoks]

So maybe we should compile a list of prospective bulls on here and have a vote and see which ones look to be the most useful to achieve what we need. With so many different enviroments to get input from, this could be cool. Not saying you have to use these bulls but it could help people choose. I think we should focus on bulls that make good mamas and grade well. Let the terminal cattle cross on ours in the commercial deal. The carcass is already there for the most part. We need easier calving bulls that still grow but not to much. Let the show heifer monopoly do it's thing. It is after all the cash cow of the association so why mess with it. This is another avenue to explore for the breed. A virtually untapped avenue IMO.
So do we start a new thread??? Or continue with this and add a poll? Thoughts? <beer>

AJ started what I think is a very good thread.TGC you bring up some good points, if we could compile a list of bloodlines that could be used in the development of really functional cattle it would be great. We should remember every product needs quality control and has to be developed for the consumer.When we talk the commercial industry we have to remember we have the following customers the cow/calf producer, the feedlot, and the packer.(there is also the custom/organic growing markets) Different lines will better meet each of those needs, we need to identify the cattle with the traits  that will help us develop these markets. There will be cattle that will meet the needs of more than one market. When you look at bigger sales of commercial bulls you see them catalogue bulls as growth, calving ease, etc. There are markets for more than one type. We need to know lines of cattle that work on fescue, short grass dry country, coast areas etc.. By compiling options and sharing info we can figure out how to develop these markets. No one said it was easy but it is kind of fun!  <beer> (thumbsup)

 

[sjcattleco]

There you have it. They key to expansion of the Shorthorn breed is positive propaganda on the Shorthorn breed. The commercial producers are so stupid aren't they? ;D

it all depends on who is writing the propaganda and what they want to promote!!!  I don't  see too much of my cows are fatter than your cows on KY 31 fescue!!! or my forage raised 16 mo old bullls each covered 28 cows each in 50 days..... or we only make 120 round bale for the winter and we have 100 head to worry about....

 

[sue]

I think building a functional, calving ease, fertile program is just that- a long stack of pedigrees that work and not the quick fix of one generation of mating. A salute son in your avatar sends a mixed message to breeders like me and the sp lurkers  that I have visited  in just a few recent days???

Think hard about what you're building and frankly just be proud . But please dont send a mixed messages it drives me nutts . I have alot of friends that want to make the power shorthorns... and that's ok with me. They compete in the heifer show ring and go out and buy a steer .

I posted this yrling pic of captain - he had never been washed. clipped blown out or even combed until the freezing cold day in feb. No fancy ration - he came out of A&T the last weekend of Oct.
I personally feel that the moderate, low maintenance cattle appeal to club steer calf folks- look at the WORLDS HOTTEST BEEF CATTLE BREEDER TIM OHLDE. His type of female program does work for club calf but not fancy  show ring?
Now on in big trouble - please no text messages.

 

[aj]

I stand corrected. Thanks JIT, and all your buddies for explaining things to me.

 

[justintime]

I think building a functional, calving ease, fertile program is just that- a long stack of pedigrees that work and not the quick fix of one generation of mating. A salute son in your avatar sends a mixed message to breeders like me and the sp lurkers  that I have visited  in just a few recent days???

Think hard about what you're building and frankly just be proud . But please dont send a mixed messages it drives me nutts . I have alot of friends that want to make the power shorthorns... and that's ok with me. They compete in the heifer show ring and go out and buy a steer .

I posted this yrling pic of captain - he had never been washed. clipped blown out or even combed until the freezing cold day in feb. No fancy ration - he came out of A&T the last weekend of Oct.
I personally feel that the moderate, low maintenance cattle appeal to club steer calf folks- look at the WORLDS HOTTEST BEEF CATTLE BREEDER TIM OHLDE. His type of female program does work for club calf but not fancy  show ring?
Now on in big trouble - please no text messages.

Yes I do have a Salute son in my avator. Quite frankly, I really don't care what he is sired by, but I judge the bull on his own merits. I have never had a bull of any pedigree that I have had as many commercial producers ask me about. I had a Timeline bull in our bull sale last spring, and he sold at $4850 to a large rancher in Alberta. He purchased him sight unseen, but he has phoned me twice since buying him and he says he wants many more bulls like him. I am not saying I am a big fan of Salute, but I do have some Salute offspring that are working well for us. We have four Salute cows in production with their second calves. All have calved unassisted and have had excellent calves. They have beautiful udders and they have stayed in great condition. If they can work with the rest of our herd, that is all I ask.

Since we had Timeline in our bull test, I have several inquiries each year asking if I have any more Salute sired bulls. Just yesterday, a commercial man called me and asked me why I did not have any Salute daughters in our sale. He said he wants to buy some females sired by him as he saw some at another farm and he just loved them.  This is why I have always said that you cannot put all cattle from any particular bloodline in the same basket. As I have mentioned here before, one of the cows I have in my " top 5 ever" catagory, was a direct daughter of Ayatollah. She was an amazing cow, and maybe the thickest, deepest, easiest fleshing cow I have ever seen.

I do not see this as sending a mixed message, but that is just how I see it. I have always felt that cattle should be judged on their own merit. I have also thought many times, that I have learned far too much about pedigrees over the years, especially when I see many so called " purebred" non appendix cattle that I can trace to very uncertain heritage. For example, there is a very well known purebred cow family in Canada that goes back to a Shorthorn X Simmental cow I purchased in Ontario in the early 70s. I could go on at great length about many others, but I have decided that judging animals on their own merit is probably the best way to go.

 

[justintime]

In regards to judging cattle on their own merit, I have attached a recent ad that shows our present herd sires. They come from a wide array of genetics and I think they all offer some unique qualities to assist us in producing sound athletic bulls and females that can work anywhere. I am told constantly that commercial producers won't buy bulls from certain bloodlines. Quite frankly, we have sold over 150 bulls in the past 5 years, and the only people who have asked for pedigree info, has been some purebred producers. The commercial buyers select on what they see, and then check for BW and performance information. At least that has been my experience so far.  I am also told that commercial producers won't like Timeline or his calves. Right now, I have several ranchers some who run 800 +  cows who have inquired about his sons. So far, all his calves have been born unassisted  with moderate BWs. He is just another piece of the puzzle.

I am not telling anyone else how to run their breeding program. I am only explaining ours. I try to  listen to my buyers and try to produce what they ask for, and not the other way around, ie: try to tell them what they should use or need. What works for me may not work for you. That is what is so good about this business. We can all run our breeding programs the way we see fit and try to produce a saleable product. I have been told many times over the years that I was using genetics that would destroy the breed. When I purchased Ready Go in 1974, I was told he would ruin the breed by a well known breeder of that day. Thirty plus years later I am still selling semen from him. Many breeders told me I was wasting my money, when we imported the Irish cattle and they said the Breed would never accept them. Fortunately, I did not take it to heart. I had some well known breeders laugh at me, when I told them I had purchased Major Leroy. That only made me more determined to prove them wrong. In 4 calf crops, only two Leroy sons have not sold as breeding bulls. His daughters are making awesome mother cows. He has been used in over 50 countries now. i have also been told that Timeline will not work as he is sired by Salute. His first son here sold for $4850, and I think all of his offspring sold so far have averaged over $4000. This year I have flushed several of our best donors to Timeline, as I think it is going to be fun to prove some people wrong. If I am not right, I will be the one that takes the hit, but I accept that. 

I older I get, the more convinced I am that there are good cattle in every part of the breed. I think if everyone just let everyone else produce what they think is best, the marketplace will prove them right or wrong.

 

[Okotoks]

I think building a functional, calving ease, fertile program is just that- a long stack of pedigrees that work and not the quick fix of one generation of mating. A salute son in your avatar sends a mixed message to breeders like me and the sp lurkers  that I have visited  in just a few recent days???

Think hard about what you're building and frankly just be proud . But please dont send a mixed messages it drives me nutts . I have alot of friends that want to make the power shorthorns... and that's ok with me. They compete in the heifer show ring and go out and buy a steer .

I posted this yrling pic of captain - he had never been washed. clipped blown out or even combed until the freezing cold day in feb. No fancy ration - he came out of A&T the last weekend of Oct.
I personally feel that the moderate, low maintenance cattle appeal to club steer calf folks- look at the WORLDS HOTTEST BEEF CATTLE BREEDER TIM OHLDE. His type of female program does work for club calf but not fancy  show ring?
Now on in big trouble - please no text messages.

Sue I have to disagree with some of what you say here. I know the commercial breeder that bought that Timeline son from Grant. We sold him 4 Northern Legend 3N sons a few years ago and he paid up to $7200 for them . He runs 24 plus bulls and half of them are shorthorn. The other half are Simmental and a couple of Red Angus. He sells 150 bred yearling heifers in the fall at a bred heifer sale and tops the market. He feeds out his steers. He runs 600 head plus of commercial cows. He has bought his bulls from Eionmor, ourselves, Saskvalley and JIT. This may come as shock to some of you but in his commercial operation they better have some growth to them because they will be railed when they are 1300 lbs. plus at just over 14 months.(and the Canadian market does pay a premium for marbling) He is constantly turning down offers on his replacement shorthorn cross heifers. He wants calves that grow and mother cows that maintain their condition while weaning off big calves because he sells his product by the lb.! There's a whole lot of lecturing goes on about what the commercial man wants but it just might be different in some areas. JIT is selling to the commercial producer in his area and those are the people he needs to keep paying attention to. I don't personally use any of the Trump line but for the show folks that cross that on some of my genetics it sure seems to work for them so more power to them. At the same time I have some happy commercial customers. I really think some of you should haul out a copy of Alvin Saunders Short-Horn Cattle published in 1909 and see where blindly following only one bloodline actually takes you.JMO

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

JIT, you play the game and you play it well. In order to survive and profit in the purebred biz you HAVE to play the game. In one comment you say you have and I quote" a wide array of bulls to offer some unique qualities to produce sound cattle that will work anywhere." Really??  I think you are tryin to be like Wal Mart and have something for everyone instead of breeding your cows to your bulls and producing cattle that work in ur area and not worry about anyone elses. I'm not telling you what to do just a opinion. One more opinion from me,  we like some growth here in the states, but we also like 70 to 90 lb calves not the 120 plus Salute type. How come I have never seen a pasture breeding pic of Timeline? Just the one where he is hog fat is all we ever get. How about some pics of Timeline calves being raised with no creep feed? I have tried these same lines for myself and all I can say about them is stockyard bound for me. No real world doability. For sure not fescue cattle.

 

[Hilltop]

Think hard about what you're building and frankly just be proud . But please dont send a mixed messages it drives me nutts .

Speaking of mixed messages sometimes from what I read I wonder if some breeders are trying to get back to the belt buckle cattle?? You are correct about having to be proud of what a person raises!
Why would anyone strive to raise cattle that will not work in their enviroment or will not sell to the market in their area, whether it is for calving ease or performance??

The pic I attached is my daughters first purebred animal that she bred and raised, and is VERY proud of. ME N' MY Hawkeye sired by Saskvalley Pioneer and his maternal grandsire is none other than Salute. We helped our daughter pick his dam (HC Daffodil) from JIT because we thought a lot of her dam (River Acres Daffodil) She was not purchased because of her pedigree.
Though we have not had a lot of calves by Salute we have never assisted one at birth. Did we use Hawkeye ourselves? YES. Did we breed any heifers to him? DAMN RIGHT!!

 

[justintime]

JIT, you play the game and you play it well. In order to survive and profit in the purebred biz you HAVE to play the game. In one comment you say you have and I quote" a wide array of bulls to offer some unique qualities to produce sound cattle that will work anywhere." Really??  I think you are tryin to be like Wal Mart and have something for everyone instead of breeding your cows to your bulls and producing cattle that work in ur area and not worry about anyone elses. I'm not telling you what to do just a opinion. One more opinion from me,  we like some growth here in the states, but we also like 70 to 90 lb calves not the 120 plus Salute type. How come I have never seen a pasture breeding pic of Timeline? Just the one where he is hog fat is all we ever get. How about some pics of Timeline calves being raised with no creep feed? I have tried these same lines for myself and all I can say about them is stockyard bound for me. No real world doability. For sure not fescue cattle.

You are partly right, in that I need to produce cattle that will work for a wider array of people. Why is this? It is simply because I have to make over 90 % of my living from these cattle. Maybe it is different where you live, but here where I am, I have commercial producers who want a wide array of type. I actually have one commercial man who wants big BW bulls as, in his own mind, he is convinced that he can get more pounds at weaning on their calves and he doesn't mind helping a few cows calve. I do not keep any bulls over 110 lbs ( remember, that our calves here are probably 10 lb heavier at birth than in midwest states). As I have said before, I have not had a single complaint from the buyers of over 200 bulls since I started banding everything over 110 lbs. The guy who likes the bigger BWs has asked me to keep one of the bigger BWs and he will use him, but I have not done this.

I have always been very amazed how different people select their bulls. We usually let the potential buyers walk through the bull pens and let them pick themselves. Usually many come out having picked different bulls. Timeline was possibly the only exception we have had in recent years, as almost everyone picked him as their favorite bull. By the way, the hog fat picture you see on the side of my posts was taken after he had bred all the cows at one of his owners. He was used in two more herds after this picture was taken.

I know there are some 120 lb BWs from Salute, but I have not had any. None. I expect you will not believe this. I have only had a few calves from him though ( 8 in total) and they have been from 88 lbs to 105 lbs. In the year we used Salute I also had two Gizmo bull calves. Both were over 110 lbs at birth and both were banded. I am not bashing Gizmo, so don't go there. I love the bull . It just happened I had two bigger calves from him.

So, when I have to sell cattle to a wide array of people who have a wide array of likes and dislikes, I do use some different bloodlines. When you look at our pen of bulls, you will see some variation, but far less than I have seen at some herds who use one or two bulls of the same bloodlines. If you were to come to  my place to look for a bull, you may not want some of them, but I expect you could find something you did. I have not had any problems getting my bulls sold, as we have sold out for the last 6 years now.

I also believe in blending bloodlines. I think it is an important part of breeding cattle. Like you, I have some bloodlines that I am not fond of, but if I were to find an animal that was from that bloodline that I thought would work in my breeding program, I would not be afraid to use it. I would also say that it is your right to disagree with the bloodlines I use, but it is not your right to tell me what to do, in order to make a living. I do not have another job to go too to support my cattle habit. You can sell bulls and females in your area, and I will do the same here. I doubt if we will bother each other. I am hoping to sell 40 bulls in 2011 and my goal is to sell 50 bulls within 3 years. What are your goals. You seen to have a lot of answers but very little performance to back it up. JMO

 

[r.n.reed]

Hey,can someone help lennon out with his air conditioner over on the help page?

 

[knabe]

all cattle should be alike.  just like humans.

 

[aj]

Last time I checked there were 7 calves in Canada and none in the U.S.. This was after 9 commercial breeders and one registered breeder bought Timeline. Then the story was 7 registered breeders a one commercial breeder(just for the fun of it). It seems like there should be more than 7 calves out of a 20,000 bull after a couple years. Although the one guy was probably the commercial guy that tunes in every morning over coffee and steer planet. This story gets better and better.I'm surprised ABS hasn't bought into Timeline since he is one hell of a bull. Keep up the good work jit. (clapping)

 

[aj]

jit....I visited your website and I under the equine section(you do have a wide variety of genetics) I may be interested in the wilma and betty genetics. As the great George Jones once said" I ripped off the head of elvis.......poured fred up to his pelvis.......yabba dabbba dooo......the king is gone.......and so are you.(The king is gone song).