Shorty hf bulls

[kfacres]

Shorthorn heifer bulls!!! we have all agreed that JPJ is a great one, some of the old bloodlines are a option, and Waukaru Patent is showing calving ease in his EPDs.  On the ASA (Okotoks mentioned this earlier) you can search EPD's and find animals with the traits that work in your area, as well as having the BW epds.  I thought I would mention a point I think is VERY important, no matter what size of calf you need good pelvic structure to get it out.  We had a crossbred cow as a recip and she had trouble delivering a 80 lb calf.  Needless to say she went to the Golden arches.  In evaluating calving ease we should recognize it isn't all the bull.  For a example a light BW bull out of a large BW cow is likely to throw both ends of the spectram.

back to the original question...  here's what we are using on our heifers, shorthorn and cross bred.. no we don't have semen available.. but it could be another option somday perhaps...  

Like most, our operation has been in search of a sound, consistant, sure fire calving ease for quite some time now.  It was a must that this bull have acceptable phenotype coupled with an outstand pedigree geared towards calving ease, low birth weight, and maternal power.  The bull pictured above has met our goals, and left nothing to be desired...

Pictured above is Andras Trend 8040- as a two year old- on pasture currently running a group of 25 heifers, with just enough grain to keep them calm (1/2 lb/ day/ every other day).  Nonstop, he's been running various groups of heifers (25-40) for the last two years under the same senerio and conditions.  So as this picture attests to, Trend has been a very easy keeper, and the number of heifers hasn't effected his body condition score, or fertiltiy yet.  If we didn't feed that little bit of grain, he's be in just as good of shape!

We purchased this bull from the 'Andras Your Kind' 2009 Bull Sale to be our calving ease specialist and add maternal power to use on our purebred, and crossbred heifers alike (even Jerseys).  Trend has not, nor will he ever be used on any mature cows- only heifers!  Soon, (December) we are expecting his second crop of calves, out of about 50 heifers, with little paitience.  Again, we expect him to live up to expectations, and remain a no-miss, sure fire calving ease sire.  

We really like how Trend is put together on the side profile.  He has plenty of balance, eye appeal, and mass for a calving ease, 5.5 frame score sire.  To date, we haven't had to assist a heifer during the birth (80 heifers) process, AND, we've only had one go outside of the 55-65 lb range- and it weighed 47!  Keep in mind that these were March through September calves, so a lighter birth weight was to be expected.  All calves, (again 80 calves) have plenty of vigor at birth, and have been up sucking while still wet!  Not one has died, not one has gotten sick, not one was weak at birth!  We bring all the heifers to the barn with their newborns for observation, and in the past, we've always had to haul theh wet calves up with the gator-- not the Trend's!

Sure fire calving ease if you ask me!! The difference between our bull, and the rest of the playing field- is this bull actually has data to back it up- with zero outliers!  

He doesn't miss!

I've attached a picture of the bull, and one of his calves that's about a month old in the pictuure.  She is the onlly calf to date that hasn't been solid red, or black.  Actually the red calf in the background is also a Trend

 

[tucker]

to many shorthorn breeders on here bashing  herds and people they do not know or have  not even visited their programs and hiding behind a computer,its sad -chasing a bunch of people of this board. i wonder how many cattle trever grey,sue,sjcattle,a.j., and feeder duck sell a year, they seem to have such strong willed views that surely their success has been amazing. PETA like tactics is not something that is respected. the great thing in this world is we get to decide what kind of cattle we like,what we believe is best  for our program. i for one can not understand why  sue ,a.j. or trever want 5 frame bulls on angus cows,just seems like  your leaving to much free perfomence- thats not real world economics to me= how ever they may be in a differant region or market then me.  there is so many markets and opertunities breed what u like,diversification is  healthy for a breed.lack of respect for mankind is not.

 

[jaimiediamond]

Some bulls that have worked for us as calving ease sires.  In our market calving ease and growth are very important as in the end our commercial farmer sells his calves by the pound. Our sires are expected to not only produce reasonable sized calves at birth but to produce calves that gain without creep.

Northern Legend 3N
CE 2.1 BW 0.8 WW 18 YW 32

Diamond Prophecy 21P
CE2.7BW 0.4 WW 19 YW 34

Alta Cedar Sherman 7S
CE 5.3 BW -0.3 WW 10 YW 8

Matlock Red Sniper 1 U
CE 5.7 BW -1.3 WW 8 YW 16

Diamond Regal Legend 4R
CE 5.4 BW -0.3 WW 8 YW 16

 

[Okotoks]

Shorthorn heifer bulls!!! we have all agreed that JPJ is a great one, some of the old bloodlines are a option, and Waukaru Patent is showing calving ease in his EPDs.  On the ASA (Okotoks mentioned this earlier) you can search EPD's and find animals with the traits that work in your area, as well as having the BW epds.  I thought I would mention a point I think is VERY important, no matter what size of calf you need good pelvic structure to get it out.  We had a crossbred cow as a recip and she had trouble delivering a 80 lb calf.  Needless to say she went to the Golden arches.  In evaluating calving ease we should recognize it isn't all the bull.  For a example a light BW bull out of a large BW cow is likely to throw both ends of the spectram.

back to the original question...  here's what we are using on our heifers, shorthorn and cross bred.. no we don't have semen available.. but it could be another option somday perhaps...  

Like most, our operation has been in search of a sound, consistant, sure fire calving ease for quite some time now.  It was a must that this bull have acceptable phenotype coupled with an outstand pedigree geared towards calving ease, low birth weight, and maternal power.  The bull pictured above has met our goals, and left nothing to be desired...

Pictured above is Andras Trend 8040- as a two year old- on pasture currently running a group of 25 heifers, with just enough grain to keep them calm (1/2 lb/ day/ every other day).  Nonstop, he's been running various groups of heifers (25-40) for the last two years under the same senerio and conditions.  So as this picture attests to, Trend has been a very easy keeper, and the number of heifers hasn't effected his body condition score, or fertiltiy yet.  If we didn't feed that little bit of grain, he's be in just as good of shape!

We purchased this bull from the 'Andras Your Kind' 2009 Bull Sale to be our calving ease specialist and add maternal power to use on our purebred, and crossbred heifers alike (even Jerseys).  Trend has not, nor will he ever be used on any mature cows- only heifers!  Soon, (December) we are expecting his second crop of calves, out of about 50 heifers, with little paitience.  Again, we expect him to live up to expectations, and remain a no-miss, sure fire calving ease sire.  

We really like how Trend is put together on the side profile.  He has plenty of balance, eye appeal, and mass for a calving ease, 5.5 frame score sire.  To date, we haven't had to assist a heifer during the birth (80 heifers) process, AND, we've only had one go outside of the 55-65 lb range- and it weighed 47!  Keep in mind that these were March through September calves, so a lighter birth weight was to be expected.  All calves, (again 80 calves) have plenty of vigor at birth, and have been up sucking while still wet!  Not one has died, not one has gotten sick, not one was weak at birth!  We bring all the heifers to the barn with their newborns for observation, and in the past, we've always had to haul theh wet calves up with the gator-- not the Trend's!

Sure fire calving ease if you ask me!! The difference between our bull, and the rest of the playing field- is this bull actually has data to back it up- with zero outliers!  

He doesn't miss!

I've attached a picture of the bull, and one of his calves that's about a month old in the pictuure.  She is the onlly calf to date that hasn't been solid red, or black.  Actually the red calf in the background is also a Trend

The consitency of his birth weights is awesome. Do you use any other Red Angus bulls on the cows for Durham Reds or just Trend on the heifers?

 

[Okotoks]

so far, i have not talked to one breeder in Canada that does not like their cows and steers about 100 lbs heavier than the US.  that includes Angus, shorthorn, maine's.

Yesterday we were driving through ranching country out past Cochrane. It was a beautiful fall day and of course we have had a great year for grass. I saw more great mother cows in an hour than you would believe. Most of the ones we saw were Simmie/fleckvieh or charolais crosses. They were deep bodied, carrying a lot of flesh and I bet they averaged 1500 lbs. plus. The calves nursing them are big and bet they are 750 plus. Met a friend in Olds and his steers the week before averaged over 700 lbs and were Limmie,  angus or limmie angus crosses. If your cows are 1500 to 1600 then 7% of their body weight is going to be over 100 lb. calf! These cows are producing pounds for these producers and they suit their programs. I think you would have a hard time selling them a bull that gave light birth weights without the performance to go with it.

 

[kfacres]

Shorthorn heifer bulls!!! we have all agreed that JPJ is a great one, some of the old bloodlines are a option, and Waukaru Patent is showing calving ease in his EPDs.  On the ASA (Okotoks mentioned this earlier) you can search EPD's and find animals with the traits that work in your area, as well as having the BW epds.  I thought I would mention a point I think is VERY important, no matter what size of calf you need good pelvic structure to get it out.  We had a crossbred cow as a recip and she had trouble delivering a 80 lb calf.  Needless to say she went to the Golden arches.  In evaluating calving ease we should recognize it isn't all the bull.  For a example a light BW bull out of a large BW cow is likely to throw both ends of the spectram.

back to the original question...  here's what we are using on our heifers, shorthorn and cross bred.. no we don't have semen available.. but it could be another option somday perhaps...  

Like most, our operation has been in search of a sound, consistant, sure fire calving ease for quite some time now.  It was a must that this bull have acceptable phenotype coupled with an outstand pedigree geared towards calving ease, low birth weight, and maternal power.  The bull pictured above has met our goals, and left nothing to be desired...

Pictured above is Andras Trend 8040- as a two year old- on pasture currently running a group of 25 heifers, with just enough grain to keep them calm (1/2 lb/ day/ every other day).  Nonstop, he's been running various groups of heifers (25-40) for the last two years under the same senerio and conditions.  So as this picture attests to, Trend has been a very easy keeper, and the number of heifers hasn't effected his body condition score, or fertiltiy yet.  If we didn't feed that little bit of grain, he's be in just as good of shape!

We purchased this bull from the 'Andras Your Kind' 2009 Bull Sale to be our calving ease specialist and add maternal power to use on our purebred, and crossbred heifers alike (even Jerseys).  Trend has not, nor will he ever be used on any mature cows- only heifers!  Soon, (December) we are expecting his second crop of calves, out of about 50 heifers, with little paitience.  Again, we expect him to live up to expectations, and remain a no-miss, sure fire calving ease sire.  

We really like how Trend is put together on the side profile.  He has plenty of balance, eye appeal, and mass for a calving ease, 5.5 frame score sire.  To date, we haven't had to assist a heifer during the birth (80 heifers) process, AND, we've only had one go outside of the 55-65 lb range- and it weighed 47!  Keep in mind that these were March through September calves, so a lighter birth weight was to be expected.  All calves, (again 80 calves) have plenty of vigor at birth, and have been up sucking while still wet!  Not one has died, not one has gotten sick, not one was weak at birth!  We bring all the heifers to the barn with their newborns for observation, and in the past, we've always had to haul theh wet calves up with the gator-- not the Trend's!

Sure fire calving ease if you ask me!! The difference between our bull, and the rest of the playing field- is this bull actually has data to back it up- with zero outliers!  

He doesn't miss!

I've attached a picture of the bull, and one of his calves that's about a month old in the pictuure.  She is the onlly calf to date that hasn't been solid red, or black.  Actually the red calf in the background is also a Trend

The consitency of his birth weights is awesome. Do you use any other Red Angus bulls on the cows for Durham Reds or just Trend on the heifers?

+

no he is the only RA bull we have ever used..  We are using our purebred Shorthorn bull on all the mature cows shorthorn and crossbred alike (Ang/ Sim/ RA). 

Send me a PM... I'll let you into the rest of the story

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

to many shorthorn breeders on here bashing  herds and people they do not know or have  not even visited their programs and hiding behind a computer,its sad -chasing a bunch of people of this board. i wonder how many cattle trever grey,sue,sjcattle,a.j., and feeder duck sell a year, they seem to have such strong willed views that surely their success has been amazing. PETA like tactics is not something that is respected. the great thing in this world is we get to decide what kind of cattle we like,what we believe is best  for our program. i for one can not understand why  sue ,a.j. or trever want 5 frame bulls on angus cows,just seems like  your leaving to much free perfomence- thats not real world economics to me= how ever they may be in a differant region or market then me.  there is so many markets and opertunities breed what u like,diversification is  healthy for a breed.lack of respect for mankind is not.

When have I ever claimed amazing sales? I will stick to what I have found works for me. You must have bigger cows and more available resources than me. Good for you. If it works don't fix it. 5 frame works best for me, sorry.
I don't speak for anybody but me. I have never met aj, feeder duck or sjcattle. They just happen to think along the same lines as me. Real world economics for me is get them big enough cheap enough. PETA like tactics? Come on man.

 

[shortyisqueen]

I haven't posted to Steerplanet in a while, but have been following this thread. I think there have been a lot of good bulls mentioned, and that its nice to see some genetic variance…so that all Shorthorn breeders should be able to find something that fits their program. We have been using KMS Maverick (coincidentally a descendant of Boa Kay Royal Banner that JIT or Okotoks mentioned earlier) for 10 years on our heifers and will keep doing so. His calves average about 84# at our place and have adequate growth. His daughters are phenomenal! He is still sound and walking our pastures at the age of 10, and hopefully he still has some good years left in him. His mother is also still producing at our place. He has probably been used more by commercial breeders than purebred ones by A.I., so I don't think counting the number of registered offspring is a logical way to measure the success and functionality of a breeding bull. A registration paper is just… a piece of paper.

I also think that the influence of the Shorthorn breed in the commercial industry appears to be even less than it really is, simply due to heritability of Shorthorn color patterns. If you use the bull on a set of Angus cows, the calves are solid red or black. If you use the bull on Hereford or Simmi cows, the calves are often red baldies. There may be more Shorthorn-influence calves going through the auction marts and on to the rail than it appears at first glance. If a Shorthorn breeder can't tell which calves are off Shorthorn cross cows, the order buyers certainly aren't going to pick up on it. This is both a positive and a negative – positive because commercial buyers of Shorthorn bulls can be assured of a consistent package to take to the auction, but negative because the Shorthorn breed might never get credit for its work behind the scenes.

I have attached some pictures of some mature Maverick daughters off of Hereford females. These were all heifers' first calves themselves, and are maintained on a total forage ration. They raise their calves without creep.

 

[shortyisqueen]

Just for interest, I've also attached a picture of a heifer calf raised by one of them this year. She looks like a Simmi-Angus cross female, and you would never guess a Shorthorn-influence cow brought her in. She had an 85# birthweight, and a 765# weaning weight. For the "no-trump" crowd, I have attached a picture of one of our KMS Canasta (Sonny son out of Maverick's mom) daughter's as a three year old working in commercial conditions. She has raised two of our best heifers calves in two years. We sell nearly all our bulls (most years 100%) into the commercial market. Of interest, she shows the most Shorthorn color characteristics and she is off a white bull.

 

[Okotoks]

Just for interest, I've also attached a picture of a heifer calf raised by one of them this year. She looks like a Simmi-Angus cross female, and you would never guess a Shorthorn-influence cow brought her in. She had an 85# birthweight, and a 765# weaning weight. For the "no-trump" crowd, I have attached a picture of one of our KMS Canasta (Sonny son out of Maverick's mom) daughter's as a three year old working in commercial conditions. She has raised two of our best heifers calves in two years. We sell nearly all our bulls (most years 100%) into the commercial market. Of interest, she shows the most Shorthorn color characteristics and she is off a white bull.

Now those are mama cows. They are bringing in some pounds- those calves look great.

 

[jaimiediamond]

Alright I will take it upon myself to add some more bulls that I know either worked for us or for other breeders.  The sire of those awesome cows posted above is at the bottom

Muridale Buster 14K
CE 1.0 BW -1.2 WW 13 YW 31

Alta Cedar Prairie Storm 47R
CE 2.8 BW -1.2 WW 0 YW 9

Eionmor Ideal 61M
CE 8.0 BW -2.4 WW10 YW 19

HC Mist's Return
CE 0.2 BW 0.8 WW 4 YW 6

KMS Maverick 30B 17L
CE 4.5 BW 1.0 WW 16 YW 29

 

[Okotoks]

Posted above is beautiful commercial three old cow by KMS Canasta. He was a son of Sonny and out of an Alta Cedar cow. Now  that three year old is working cow ! I realize some posters on here have had issues with some of their Trump cattle but what was the other half of the pedigree? Sometimes you can get a totally different result depending how you blend or cross bloodlines. I am not denying  you had a bad experience. It just might be the bloodlines have worked differently for others. Sometimes even full sibs look like Mutt and Jeff!
Years ago we decided to use a couple of straws of Ayatollah because his son Cactus Flat Ringmaster was so good. Interesting but Ringmaster’s dam was a daughter of TPS Coronet Leader 21st. Of course this was long after the 21st was cool and long before he became cool again through another grandson Jake’s Proud Jazz! (not to mention a son Roanoke Flashback)The Ayatollah experience in Western Canada left some good results. He was crossed on straight beef pedigrees and the resulting offspring were fast growing well fleshed animals. Maybe these cattle were throwing back to his dam a little stronger than his offspring out of the milking pedigrees. The offspring we had that went on to breed well for us were out of two maternal sisters, one by  Weston Ablo and the other by HC Trendsetter 26K. ( I personally feel  it was the 26K bull that put the Ramsholt herd on the map, seems JIT’s influence was felt even before the Irish) These Ayatollah descendants had good udders, fleshing ability and above average muscling . I have never seen easier births with more vigorous calves. Over the years through selection most  of his descendants now are 2 to 3 frame scores lower than back in the 80”s. If you say that to some people they will look at you like you just grew a third eye! Mike Dugdale maintained that the good experience we had was due to the dams. He said he should never have been used on the milkers in the US as a lot were just too hard doing. I’m sure even here there are exceptions.
I guess what I’m saying is don’t discount something before you check it out. If it works for someone else there is no need to say it doesn’t if you have not seen it for yourself in their operation.  You may have had a totally different experience just because genetics  are still a mystery in spite of modern advances.

 

[Aussie]

I also think that the influence of the Shorthorn breed in the commercial industry appears to be even less than it really is, simply due to heritability of Shorthorn color patterns. If you use the bull on a set of Angus cows, the calves are solid red or black. If you use the bull on Hereford or Simmi cows, the calves are often red baldies. There may be more Shorthorn-influence calves going through the auction marts and on to the rail than it appears at first glance. If a Shorthorn breeder can't tell which calves are off Shorthorn cross cows, the order buyers certainly aren't going to pick up on it. This is both a positive and a negative – positive because commercial buyers of Shorthorn bulls can be assured of a consistent package to take to the auction, but negative because the Shorthorn breed might never get credit for its work behind the scenes.

Now they are great looking cows. A very traditional cross here with the shorthorn adding milk to herefords for a very hardy cow. Add in a Euro like you have done and I can't believe they are not more popular. Great cows  (thumbsup)

 

[garybob]

I also think that the influence of the Shorthorn breed in the commercial industry appears to be even less than it really is, simply due to heritability of Shorthorn color patterns. If you use the bull on a set of Angus cows, the calves are solid red or black. If you use the bull on Hereford or Simmi cows, the calves are often red baldies. There may be more Shorthorn-influence calves going through the auction marts and on to the rail than it appears at first glance. If a Shorthorn breeder can't tell which calves are off Shorthorn cross cows, the order buyers certainly aren't going to pick up on it. This is both a positive and a negative – positive because commercial buyers of Shorthorn bulls can be assured of a consistent package to take to the auction, but negative because the Shorthorn breed might never get credit for its work behind the scenes.

Now they are great looking cows. A very traditional cross here with the shorthorn adding milk to herefords for a very hardy cow. Add in a Euro like you have done and I can't believe they are not more popular. Great cows  (thumbsup)

Preconceived notions on hide color, feeyard performance, carcass quality, and rib eye area. That would be my answer.

 

[sue]

Just for interest, I've also attached a picture of a heifer calf raised by one of them this year. She looks like a Simmi-Angus cross female, and you would never guess a Shorthorn-influence cow brought her in. She had an 85# birthweight, and a 765# weaning weight. For the "no-trump" crowd, I have attached a picture of one of our KMS Canasta (Sonny son out of Maverick's mom) daughter's as a three year old working in commercial conditions. She has raised two of our best heifers calves in two years. We sell nearly all our bulls (most years 100%) into the commercial market. Of interest, she shows the most Shorthorn color characteristics and she is off a white bull.

SWEET SWEET HEIFER!

 

[cattlefarmer]

to many shorthorn breeders on here bashing  herds and people they do not know or have  not even visited their programs and hiding behind a computer,its sad -chasing a bunch of people of this board. i wonder how many cattle trever grey,sue,sjcattle,a.j., and feeder duck sell a year, they seem to have such strong willed views that surely their success has been amazing. PETA like tactics is not something that is respected. the great thing in this world is we get to decide what kind of cattle we like,what we believe is best  for our program. i for one can not understand why  sue ,a.j. or trever want 5 frame bulls on angus cows,just seems like  your leaving to much free perfomence- thats not real world economics to me= how ever they may be in a differant region or market then me.  there is so many markets and opertunities breed what u like,diversification is  healthy for a breed.lack of respect for mankind is not.

Actually i think sue has a hand in marketing more cattle a year than you think. 

 

[jaimiediamond]

to many shorthorn breeders on here bashing  herds and people they do not know or have  not even visited their programs and hiding behind a computer,its sad -chasing a bunch of people of this board. i wonder how many cattle trever grey,sue,sjcattle,a.j., and feeder duck sell a year, they seem to have such strong willed views that surely their success has been amazing. PETA like tactics is not something that is respected. the great thing in this world is we get to decide what kind of cattle we like,what we believe is best  for our program. i for one can not understand why  sue ,a.j. or trever want 5 frame bulls on angus cows,just seems like  your leaving to much free perfomence- thats not real world economics to me= how ever they may be in a differant region or market then me.  there is so many markets and opertunities breed what u like,diversification is  healthy for a breed.lack of respect for mankind is not.

Actually i think sue has a hand in marketing more cattle a year than you think. 

Regardless of ones level of marketing skills or/and breeding skills there is no need to bash other peoples programs.  A little respect goes a long way.  There are a lot of people with great programs that we all could learn from if they were willing to teach without tearing others down in the process.

 

[aj]

Is narcissism good though? Hope things work out.

 

[cattlefarmer]

to many shorthorn breeders on here bashing  herds and people they do not know or have  not even visited their programs and hiding behind a computer,its sad -chasing a bunch of people of this board. i wonder how many cattle trever grey,sue,sjcattle,a.j., and feeder duck sell a year, they seem to have such strong willed views that surely their success has been amazing. PETA like tactics is not something that is respected. the great thing in this world is we get to decide what kind of cattle we like,what we believe is best  for our program. i for one can not understand why  sue ,a.j. or trever want 5 frame bulls on angus cows,just seems like  your leaving to much free perfomence- thats not real world economics to me= how ever they may be in a differant region or market then me.  there is so many markets and opertunities breed what u like,diversification is  healthy for a breed.lack of respect for mankind is not.

Actually i think sue has a hand in marketing more cattle a year than you think. 

Or
Regardless of ones level of marketing skills or/and breeding skills there is no need to bash other peoples programs.  A little respect goes a long way.  There are a lot of people with great programs that we all could learn from if they were willing to teach without tearing others down in the process.

The respect comes two ways.  Preaching my breeding program has the solution for every problem that any one has doesnt get it in my book either.  i guarentee they dont have the cure all fix all bull or cow family.  A dose of modesty can go a long ways also.

 

[knabe]

i haven't traveled very far, but i've met very few if any people that don't have anything to sell.  selling problems seems to be pretty common.