Shorty hf bulls

[sjcattleco]

And by the way. I heard another Nebraska defensive lineman got a dwi this week. I'm kinda swinging around to be a Cornhusker fan after all. ;D

and those fools are comin to the BIG 10?? Great!!!

 

[aandtcattle]

I have came to the conclusion my ideal cow is one who is moderate, (not a pud), and can raise a whooper calf on minimum assistance from me. I don't care so much about 1200 lbs vs 1500 lbs as long as they do it effiecently and don't eat twice as much hay or grass as their herd mates. I can see why aj wants smaller cows and aussie wants bigger cows. Two completely different food resources. Still IMO we need to identify and eliminate the high input cattle that dont produce that well. Playin the pedigree game and following the money current are big problems that never get discussed or cussed. Here I go again. My bad.

In my environment I tend to care quite a bit about 1200 pound cow vs 1500 pound cow.  I love the fact that you talked "efficiency though, and that is why I care so much about this 300 pound difference in mature cow weight.  In our operation we feed all bred and lactating females, long stem hay- mostly grass and millet, maybe some oats or wheat hay - very little alfalfa and NO GRAIN OR CONCENTRATE.  We average 9 - 12 inches of total precipitation in a year and we expect a cow to wean 50% of her bodyweight.  We have some cows that shatter 50% and we have a few that are below 50%, some far below 50%.  But my arguement for smaller cows, FOR ME is that it is much easier for a 1200 pound cow to raise a 600 pound calf than a 1500 pound cow to raise a 750 pound calf in my scenario.  Historically the most efficient cow between our 2 ranches weans in the neighborhood of 62% to 65% of her bodyweight and never weighs over 1100 pounds.  750 pound calves rarely exist at a and t.  Is that because we don't have any 1500 pound cows?????  No.......... it's because the last 1500+ pound cow that was here left the place open and robbed us everyday she graced us with her enormous presence and we have learned what is OPTIMUM for our resources available.  Granted 700 weight weaned calves are worth a pile of money, but they need to be.

 

[aandtcattle]

And by the way. I heard another Nebraska defensive lineman got a dwi this week. I'm kinda swinging around to be a Cornhusker fan after all. ;D

and those fools are comin to the BIG 10?? Great!!!

And this comes from the man who breeds his heifers for the first time when they are 2 year olds?  NICE! (lol)

 

[kfacres]

No I am not... notice I never gave a wt on cows.. a 1200#frame 5 cow is an awesome rip that will probably live productivly for 14 yrs!!!someday people will figure out its not now big they are but how many and how cheaply you can produce calves on the resources available to you!!! and then how well the calves grow on GRASS b/c some day feeding corn will be a luxury!  it is coming!!! 

WOW I guess there are so many goals and to many different production schemes. I guess if  your goal is to win a ribbon you are willing to sacrifice what ever it takes to do that! if its a high %age of big birth wts  then so be it but don't bother with this thread cause it ain't for you!

If you are like the few of us that hold out hope that someday the Shortys will make a huge commercial comeback then we all need to be on the same page!  For me I NEVER EVER EVER want to see a 100lb calf again! 95 is too big. I hate to say this BUT with the 10 yr projection of corn prices. Cattle that are big BW and need to be fed to 1300# are not going to be that useful.  I have said it before and I will say it again! Cull the frame 7s all of them! No one will ever win an arguement with me on why they are useful. these 1600lb show heifers are a joke to the entire industry!  Cull your under productive cows. decrease your Frame score by 1.5 points and own 20% more cows on the same acreage! using the same resources!

If you are referring to my post.. notice I said 1200 lb cows.  Last time I checked, a 1200 lb cow was about a frame low5-low6, depending on age, flesh and stage of lactation.  In my case, I'm referring to mature cows (5-6 y.o.) in various stages of lactation and all moderate to fleshy. 

thank you I agree...  we produce our Shorthorns on about a 90% grass based diet (grass hay in winter).  We do creap our fall calves due to a lack of grass during the cold)

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I have came to the conclusion my ideal cow is one who is moderate, (not a pud), and can raise a whooper calf on minimum assistance from me. I don't care so much about 1200 lbs vs 1500 lbs as long as they do it effiecently and don't eat twice as much hay or grass as their herd mates. I can see why aj wants smaller cows and aussie wants bigger cows. Two completely different food resources. Still IMO we need to identify and eliminate the high input cattle that dont produce that well. Playin the pedigree game and following the money current are big problems that never get discussed or cussed. Here I go again. My bad.

In my environment I tend to care quite a bit about 1200 pound cow vs 1500 pound cow.  I love the fact that you talked "efficiency though, and that is why I care so much about this 300 pound difference in mature cow weight.  In our operation we feed all bred and lactating females, long stem hay- mostly grass and millet, maybe some oats or wheat hay - very little alfalfa and NO GRAIN OR CONCENTRATE.  We average 9 - 12 inches of total precipitation in a year and we expect a cow to wean 50% of her bodyweight.  We have some cows that shatter 50% and we have a few that are below 50%, some far below 50%.  But my arguement for smaller cows, FOR ME is that it is much easier for a 1200 pound cow to raise a 600 pound calf than a 1500 pound cow to raise a 750 pound calf in my scenario.  Historically the most efficient cow between our 2 ranches weans in the neighborhood of 62% to 65% of her bodyweight and never weighs over 1100 pounds.  750 pound calves rarely exist at a and t.  Is that because we don't have any 1500 pound cows?????  No.......... it's because the last 1500+ pound cow that was here left the place open and robbed us everyday she graced us with her enormous presence and we have learned what is OPTIMUM for our resources available.  Granted 700 weight weaned calves are worth a pile of money, but they need to be.

Good points amigo. I would say more but after spending the last two days in my truck plowing snow I am a bit on the not making any sense side of things. :-\ Love the money tho. <beer> That wind is something out here. It's 8 degrees as I type. You folks north of the border sure are a hardy tribe. I don't know how you do it. When it gets in the single digits, i tend to toss in the towel and just sit by the fireplace as much as possible watchin sportscenter. With the windchill its something like 10 to 15 below. thats enough for me! Stay safe and warm everybody. I am off to dream about the day shorthorns and me rule the world. (pop)

 

[aandtcattle]

This is A&T Open Range.  He was a GFS Red Cloud 7026 son out of DRC 4108TM (Dover Ranch female). He was born in the same calf crop as Captain Obvious and is much more than a 1/2 brother to Captain as 4108 and 244 go back to the same, great 358 cow at Dover Ranch.  We had the misfortune of losing this bull in the fall of 2009 to a broken hip in the bull pasture (damn black bulls) but are now realizing that he was not just a heifer bull but his sons and daughters are proving to be equally impressive production oriented cattle.  There will be numerous sons of Open Range in use both commercially and in registered operations.  Galbreath Farms at Enderlin, ND purchased one of the most promising Open Range sons, A&T Rawhide 962.  This bull was the first calf out of A&T Miss Obvious 725, a Byland Mission daughter out of DRC 244 (dam to Captain Obvious).  Contact Galbreath or Shady Maple for semen on this exciting young calving ease prospect.

 

[sue]

You should post the 358K photo...

 

[aandtcattle]

Sorry sue, the 358 photo will have to wait.  But here is a picture of 244 with her second calf, A&T Miss Obvious 725.  This heifer calf went on to produce the Rawhide bull mentioned in a previous post and weaned an absolutely awesome Eionmor Marquis heifer this year.  There have been many try to buy 725 from me and all have failed.  These 2 females will never leave a&t, nor will the 2 open range daughters from 244 and the full sister to captain is, needless to say, safe and sound on the high plains as well.

 

[aj]

I priced a side delivery rake yesterday. 7,000$ new. Thats not a baler. Not a swather. Not a tractor but a hay rake. I got to thinking I could buy alot of electric fence posts and wire for 7,000 $. Let the cows do the harvesting......but damn......whos gonna build fence? ;D

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

You should post the 358K photo...

Brain fart. Who is 358K?

 

[Okotoks]

Sorry sue, the 358 photo will have to wait.  But here is a picture of 244 with her second calf, A&T Miss Obvious 725.  This heifer calf went on to produce the Rawhide bull mentioned in a previous post and weaned an absolutely awesome Eionmor Marquis heifer this year.  There have been many try to buy 725 from me and all have failed.  These 2 females will never leave a&t, nor will the 2 open range daughters from 244 and the full sister to captain is, needless to say, safe and sound on the high plains as well.

I take it you mean Eionmor Marquis 86G. He looks like a really good bull. Got a chance to tour the Eionmor herd last January with Thunderdownunder and they have some really impressive cows. The coming two year olds were really good heifers. The bull I found the most impressive was an aged bull, Eionmor Ultra 2M, he was a massive well fleshed bull. I think TDU has photos of him that day. Eionmor doesn't do a lot of advertising but they make a living off their cattle, probably a logical place to look for useful genetics.

 

[Okotoks]

I have came to the conclusion my ideal cow is one who is moderate, (not a pud), and can raise a whooper calf on minimum assistance from me. I don't care so much about 1200 lbs vs 1500 lbs as long as they do it effiecently and don't eat twice as much hay or grass as their herd mates. I can see why aj wants smaller cows and aussie wants bigger cows. Two completely different food resources. Still IMO we need to identify and eliminate the high input cattle that dont produce that well. Playin the pedigree game and following the money current are big problems that never get discussed or cussed. Here I go again. My bad.

In my environment I tend to care quite a bit about 1200 pound cow vs 1500 pound cow.  I love the fact that you talked "efficiency though, and that is why I care so much about this 300 pound difference in mature cow weight.  In our operation we feed all bred and lactating females, long stem hay- mostly grass and millet, maybe some oats or wheat hay - very little alfalfa and NO GRAIN OR CONCENTRATE.  We average 9 - 12 inches of total precipitation in a year and we expect a cow to wean 50% of her bodyweight.  We have some cows that shatter 50% and we have a few that are below 50%, some far below 50%.  But my arguement for smaller cows, FOR ME is that it is much easier for a 1200 pound cow to raise a 600 pound calf than a 1500 pound cow to raise a 750 pound calf in my scenario.  Historically the most efficient cow between our 2 ranches weans in the neighborhood of 62% to 65% of her bodyweight and never weighs over 1100 pounds.  750 pound calves rarely exist at a and t.  Is that because we don't have any 1500 pound cows?????  No.......... it's because the last 1500+ pound cow that was here left the place open and robbed us everyday she graced us with her enormous presence and we have learned what is OPTIMUM for our resources available.  Granted 700 weight weaned calves are worth a pile of money, but they need to be.

Good points amigo. I would say more but after spending the last two days in my truck plowing snow I am a bit on the not making any sense side of things. :-\ Love the money tho. <beer> That wind is something out here. It's 8 degrees as I type. You folks north of the border sure are a hardy tribe. I don't know how you do it. When it gets in the single digits, i tend to toss in the towel and just sit by the fireplace as much as possible watchin sportscenter. With the windchill its something like 10 to 15 below. thats enough for me! Stay safe and warm everybody. I am off to dream about the day shorthorns and me rule the world. (pop)

I think everyone in Eastern canada is getting way more winter than they want. Somewhere in Ontario they got 6 feet recently. Here is a link to some photos of today's storm! I am enjoying our warm weather(about 37 deg F or 3 C)
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/windsor/story/2010/12/14/sarnia-snow-rescue.html

 

[thunderdownunder]

You're right Okotoks, I do have pics of 2M- easily my favourite bull at Eionmor. If he had semen out here I wouldn't hesitate in getting some.
Those heifers were tremendous, one of the best lines of females I have seen. And the cows were all such functional, practical cattle.

I've also attached another Eionmor bull from that day, Ideal 82T. He was another bull that really impressed me.

 

[jaimiediamond]

You're right Okotoks, I do have pics of 2M- easily my favourite bull at Eionmor. If he had semen out here I wouldn't hesitate in getting some.
Those heifers were tremendous, one of the best lines of females I have seen. And the cows were all such functional, practical cattle.

I've also attached another Eionmor bull from that day, Ideal 82T. He was another bull that really impressed me.

Now thems be bulls....  (clapping)

 

[jaimiediamond]

Hi Bob
Here is the link to Belmore Jackaroo's EBV's. In Australia they use EBV's which I believe equate to twice an EPD. In any case his Birth EBV is below breed average.

http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=313021&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5C255B5A242222252D&9=505C5C50

Just to explain a bit further for those who find this a bit difficult to equate: Jackaroo is a breed trait leader for carcase weight and retail beef yield. Once his accuracy for eye muscle area hits 65%, he will be a trait leader for that as well. EMA, RBY and IMF are the only traits which require 65% to qualify as a trait leader, all others are 75%.
He is in the top 10% of the breed for calving ease direct, 400 day weight, carcase weight. Top 5% for milk and retail beef yield. Top 1% for eye muscle area and one of the top values in the breed for this.
As well as all this, as you can see he is significantly below breed average for birthweight, whilst still maintaining strong growth and carcase traits.
More information on interpreting Breedplan EBVS is at http://www.shorthorn.com.au/performance/



Is this possible... selecting for more than one trait I high jacked this from another thread since the Jackaroo bull is doing it all so to speak.... At least down under

 

[thunderdownunder]

Hi Bob
Here is the link to Belmore Jackaroo's EBV's. In Australia they use EBV's which I believe equate to twice an EPD. In any case his Birth EBV is below breed average.

http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=313021&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5C255B5A242222252D&9=505C5C50

Just to explain a bit further for those who find this a bit difficult to equate: Jackaroo is a breed trait leader for carcase weight and retail beef yield. Once his accuracy for eye muscle area hits 65%, he will be a trait leader for that as well. EMA, RBY and IMF are the only traits which require 65% to qualify as a trait leader, all others are 75%.
He is in the top 10% of the breed for calving ease direct, 400 day weight, carcase weight. Top 5% for milk and retail beef yield. Top 1% for eye muscle area and one of the top values in the breed for this.
As well as all this, as you can see he is significantly below breed average for birthweight, whilst still maintaining strong growth and carcase traits.
More information on interpreting Breedplan EBVS is at http://www.shorthorn.com.au/performance/

Is this possible... selecting for more than one trait I high jacked this from another thread since the Jackaroo bull is doing it all so to speak.... At least down under

  Lol, I know, scary isn't it?

 

[aj]

What are the accuracies on these epds or whatever. Carcass cattle have never been extreme milkers in the history of the world. If these figures are accurate the one bull could be the best in the world since these traits are usually antagonistic to one another. Where is semen available?

 

[sjcattleco]

And by the way. I heard another Nebraska defensive lineman got a dwi this week. I'm kinda swinging around to be a Cornhusker fan after all. ;D

and those fools are comin to the BIG 10?? Great!!!

And this comes from the man who breeds his heifers for the first time when they are 2 year olds?  NICE! (lol)

?????? whats that supposed to mean? 

 

[sue]

You should post the 358K photo...

Brain fart. Who is 358K?

358k IS CAPTAIN'S GRANDMA she was the oldest female at Dover the year A&T bought the group. If I m not mistaken - Les Mathers picked her out as a fav... not really knowing what A&T purchased two from the same family. She was as ROOOMY  and looked like a million bucks. DRC had suffered multiple droughts and this girl survived it all. If you photoed shopped green grass under her -she looked like she was DONOR CONDITION.  Oh maybe a white fence behind her too. REally the 358K is OPen Range's grandma too....

 

[thunderdownunder]

What are the accuracies on these epds or whatever. Carcass cattle have never been extreme milkers in the history of the world. If these figures are accurate the one bull could be the best in the world since these traits are usually antagonistic to one another. Where is semen available?

Follow the link and you will see the full complement of data and accuracies. You will see for the most part he has very high accuracies.
http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=313021&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5C255B5A242222252D&9=505C5C50
Okotoks is selling semen in this bull.