Shorty hf bulls

[Okotoks]

JTM-

Hard to breed = hard to calve.

This comment does not pretain to any one bull or breed . But think about how many times have you turned out a group of young heifers of any breed. The heifers that settle the 1st and 2nd time are laying down have the calf . The 3rd, 4th and 5th times bred are  usually having the backward, upside down or just  they might have normal birth but never make a great mama. But guess who's the last to breed again and again.
I personally have selected for fertility and when you do that Alot comes along with it. Honestly are you going to keep the bull calf out of a female that is impossible to breed? 
Since when is fertility single trait selection ?? 

JTM - I think you're on the right track with Star Bucks

Also
Hard to calve=hard to breed
because at the same time it's the heifers that calve the easiest that breed back the quickest as two year olds. At the same time the easy calvers are more apt to be the ones that stay around and have longevity, another important economic trait!

 

[JTM]

Sue, This is like asking if the chicken or the egg comes firts.  (lol) I understand what you are saying now but never thought of it in that order I guess. My experience has been that you and Okotoks are both 100% correct on hard to calve = hard to breed. I guess when you think about it, genetic selection over the years has been for many different traits depending on the breeders and their decisions. If purely looks, thickness, bone, and hair are your top priorities, then the cattle are going to be inconsistent when it comes to fertility, calving ease, and other important traits. Being only so far into our Shorthorn journey that we hope will last for generations, we have made decisions to buy a lot of our calves from top Shorthorn show cattle producers. Obviously, there are going to be some good positives and some negatives that come along with that. Going forward, my number one priorities when choosing what cows to cull will be fertility, calving ease, mothering ability. All others will be closely monitored also but I agree with you Sue, fertility and calving ease are traits that the Shorthorns can and should excel in. Oh yeah, I hope you and I are right about Star Bucks.

 

[sue]

HARD TO BREED IS HARD CALVE. 

PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE MY COMMENT WITH THE REST..... like duuhh, if they calve hard they breed back slow??

THE EGG.... DOES COME BEFORE THE CHICKEN. 

lONG LIVE YOUR JOURNEY . BUT TRUST ME WHEN I SAY .... " YOU HAVE NOTHING IF THEY DONT BREED AND GIVE YOU A LIVE CALF" ....Like if you would like to swap notes on infertility I have a folder fulll and Had a  $70,000 debt.
Hey dont worry, I didnt sell you a bull out of one of those investments. Big reason why I  have traveled through sh  herds since 2002. 
Might be why folks call me and say " hey what did you find" or what have you learned or what should I do next?? My signature does not include "sale consultant " I just do what works.
Typically the breeders I visit have just done what works for generations and never advertised? No purple banners, just honest hard working, non union people.
I really like the "non union line'... Tucker what do you think of that??  I have worked for the breeders that want to make a better shorthorn .?? Where are you Tucker? ??

 

[JTM]

Didn't mean to confuse. I was just acknowledging that I believe you even though I have not seen enough to say. Yes, it is obvious that they won't breed back as quick if they calve hard and don't clean out properly, etc. Not many of my cows have problems getting bred but I have had three heifers I can think of that we had trouble getting bred in the last couple of years. Two had JPJ bull calves, one unassisted(88lbs) and one assisted(80lbs). The other had an Eldorado heifer unassisted (80lbs). So, although I believe you when you say the egg comes before the chicken, I have only seen that the chicken comes before the egg. I enjoy the type of Shorthorns we have and the showing that comes with it, although we are probably black sheep compared to most. Why? Because we don't change birthdates, birthweights, or do anything else dishonest when it comes to showing our Shorthorns. So you might think I'm crazy that I want to be an honest, hard working, non union person with a purple banner... 

 

[sue]

JTM
Best of luck.

 

[Doc]

JTM, Keep on the path you are going , if that's what is working for you. You have some good cattle up there from what I've seen. I know on here it may seem like sometimes that if you are Shorty breeder & say that you like to show cattle. Then everybody wants to do a intervention for you & save your soul , reputation & cow herd. I say continue to do what makes you happy . Contrary to some popular belief on here , to say that you have Trump, Bloodstone, Sonny or Solution bloodlines in your herd is nothing to be ashamed of. Keep up the good work!!!

 

[Okotoks]

HARD TO BREED IS HARD CALVE. 

PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE MY COMMENT WITH THE REST..... like duuhh, if they calve hard they breed back slow??

THE EGG.... DOES COME BEFORE THE CHICKEN. 

lONG LIVE YOUR JOURNEY . BUT TRUST ME WHEN I SAY .... " YOU HAVE NOTHING IF THEY DONT BREED AND GIVE YOU A LIVE CALF" ....Like if you would like to swap notes on infertility I have a folder fulll and Had a  $70,000 debt.

Hmm, well I don’t have a folder full of fertility problems to discuss with anyone. I only know of one bull in Alberta that sired some heifers that were hard to get in calf and that was in the mid 80’s. I have never had an issue with heifers getting in calf; I have had some that got in calf as heifer calves which is kind of the opposite problem.  It’s almost as though we are living in alternate realities here. I am not trying discount or trivialize what you say but when someone like JTM has a goal and program why do you want to be negative about it? Seems to me if you had such a train wreck going you should have gone looking for different genetics a lot sooner. As for crossing Shorthorns with Angus my Uncle did that in the late 60’s (long before Angus was cool). He had a lot of easy fleshing maintenance free cattle. Later he crossed his Angus/Shorthorn to Limousin for his terminal cross. I think my cousin still has descendants from this program. My point is that crossbreeding is nothing new.(I know it’s composites now) A lot of our customers cross their Shorthorns with Charolais and Simmental so getting the cows to 1200 lbs. won’t work for them. Each market is different and I like to learn about the issues others face, if your reality is different then that’s well and good.  Probably could have ignored that post but the “duuhh” kinda got to me.

 

[shorthorn 101]

HARD TO BREED IS HARD CALVE. 

PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE MY COMMENT WITH THE REST..... like duuhh, if they calve hard they breed back slow??

THE EGG.... DOES COME BEFORE THE CHICKEN. 

lONG LIVE YOUR JOURNEY . BUT TRUST ME WHEN I SAY .... " YOU HAVE NOTHING IF THEY DONT BREED AND GIVE YOU A LIVE CALF" ....Like if you would like to swap notes on infertility I have a folder fulll and Had a  $70,000 debt.
Hey dont worry, I didnt sell you a bull out of one of those investments. Big reason why I  have traveled through sh   herds since 2002. 
Might be why folks call me and say " hey what did you find" or what have you learned or what should I do next?? My signature does not include "sale consultant " I just do what works.
Typically the breeders I visit have just done what works for generations and never advertised? No purple banners, just honest hard working, non union people.
I really like the "non union line'... Tucker what do you think of that??  I have worked for the breeders that want to make a better shorthorn .?? Where are you Tucker? ??

Are you nuts!!! Well never mind don't answer that. So this is how Sue C's it. Hard to breed = hard to calve.Well that is so untrue though I will admit it is undesirable. I don't think there's a study that would genetically correlate the two, if there is other than your experience I would like to see it!

 

[kfacres]

HARD TO BREED IS HARD CALVE. 

PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE MY COMMENT WITH THE REST..... like duuhh, if they calve hard they breed back slow??

THE EGG.... DOES COME BEFORE THE CHICKEN. 

lONG LIVE YOUR JOURNEY . BUT TRUST ME WHEN I SAY .... " YOU HAVE NOTHING IF THEY DONT BREED AND GIVE YOU A LIVE CALF" ....Like if you would like to swap notes on infertility I have a folder fulll and Had a  $70,000 debt.
Hey dont worry, I didnt sell you a bull out of one of those investments. Big reason why I  have traveled through sh   herds since 2002. 
Might be why folks call me and say " hey what did you find" or what have you learned or what should I do next?? My signature does not include "sale consultant " I just do what works.
Typically the breeders I visit have just done what works for generations and never advertised? No purple banners, just honest hard working, non union people.
I really like the "non union line'... Tucker what do you think of that??  I have worked for the breeders that want to make a better shorthorn .?? Where are you Tucker? ??

Are you nuts!!! Well never mind don't answer that. So this is how Sue C's it. Hard to breed = hard to calve.Well that is so untrue though I will admit it is undesirable. I don't think there's a study that would genetically correlate the two, if there is other than your experience I would like to see it!

there are many things in the this world (livestock industry in general) that go hand in hand with something else 99% of the time, and its so often, it can legit be taken for granted...  It's like taking a steer that is to straight upfront, and saying he won't drop his head on the travel, or won't pull his blades apart on top... just doesn't happen. 

Shorthorn 101, you must be using Trump bred cattle, and telling yourself that he's and his are calving ease!!

 

[Doc]

I'm going to have to agree with 101 on this. There is no way that a heifer or a cow is that may be hard to breed is going to be hard to calve as a rule. There is no proven correlation between the two. I've seen plenty of cows that won't a.i. , but will breed 1st time to the bull & don't have any problems calving. Or I've seen ones that may take a few times with the bull for the 1st time , after that they are fine with no problems calving.
The truth, I geuss I missed that statement in 101's post.

 

[thunderdownunder]

Shorthorn 101, you must be using Trump bred cattle, and telling yourself that he's and his are calving ease!!

I think I can vouch for the fact that shorthorn101 loves their Trumps - the whole herd is full of them :

 

[frostback]

Shorthorn 101, you must be using Trump bred cattle, and telling yourself that he's and his are calving ease!!

I think I can vouch for the fact that shorthorn101 loves their Trumps - the whole herd is full of them :

Maybe we need a smilie for jumping to conclusions.

 

[aj]

And to think that the beef industry considers the Shorthorn breed to be a hobbie breed(in general). How could they possibly jump to this conclusion?

 

[Okotoks]

   Studer's Trendsetter 31T              
                      xC459759 DOWNSVIEW RED MIST 53X
            C464995 EIONMOR MASTERPIECE 36D
                     C653934 EIONMOR MOCHICAN HAZEL 36Y
Sire: x3986086 PHA-F TH-F EIONMOR MARQUIS 86G
                       C452090 EIONMOR CAMELOT 70L
          xC645681 EIONMOR CAMELOT RUBY 94T
                          xC631786 EIONMOR RUBY AME 22L

                        xC461902 ALTA CEDAR ADMIRAL 46A
          x3995797 RAMSHOLT BALMUCHY PRINCE 24F
                       C650166 RAMSHOLT RITA MAE 18X
Dam: x4024396 DSF RONA 11K
                       xC457263 GAFA MOCHICAN
           x3996557 EIONMOR MOCHICAN RONA 6C
                      C647664 EIONMOR KNIGHT RONA 62U
Actual BW 76 lbs. Red polled...........................
 

Did anyone find out if this bull was collected?

 

[JTM]

   Studer's Trendsetter 31T              
                      xC459759 DOWNSVIEW RED MIST 53X
            C464995 EIONMOR MASTERPIECE 36D
                     C653934 EIONMOR MOCHICAN HAZEL 36Y
Sire: x3986086 PHA-F TH-F EIONMOR MARQUIS 86G
                       C452090 EIONMOR CAMELOT 70L
          xC645681 EIONMOR CAMELOT RUBY 94T
                          xC631786 EIONMOR RUBY AME 22L

                        xC461902 ALTA CEDAR ADMIRAL 46A
          x3995797 RAMSHOLT BALMUCHY PRINCE 24F
                       C650166 RAMSHOLT RITA MAE 18X
Dam: x4024396 DSF RONA 11K
                       xC457263 GAFA MOCHICAN
           x3996557 EIONMOR MOCHICAN RONA 6C
                      C647664 EIONMOR KNIGHT RONA 62U
Actual BW 76 lbs. Red polled...........................
 

Did anyone find out if this bull was collected?

His name is listed on the ASA site for genetic testing but has no case number.

 

[Okotoks]

   Studer's Trendsetter 31T              
                      xC459759 DOWNSVIEW RED MIST 53X
            C464995 EIONMOR MASTERPIECE 36D
                     C653934 EIONMOR MOCHICAN HAZEL 36Y
Sire: x3986086 PHA-F TH-F EIONMOR MARQUIS 86G
                       C452090 EIONMOR CAMELOT 70L
          xC645681 EIONMOR CAMELOT RUBY 94T
                          xC631786 EIONMOR RUBY AME 22L

                        xC461902 ALTA CEDAR ADMIRAL 46A
          x3995797 RAMSHOLT BALMUCHY PRINCE 24F
                       C650166 RAMSHOLT RITA MAE 18X
Dam: x4024396 DSF RONA 11K
                       xC457263 GAFA MOCHICAN
           x3996557 EIONMOR MOCHICAN RONA 6C
                      C647664 EIONMOR KNIGHT RONA 62U
Actual BW 76 lbs. Red polled...........................
 

Did anyone find out if this bull was collected?

His name is listed on the ASA site for genetic testing but has no case number.

I was just looking at the ASA's updated status list and it doesn't show the results beside the animal but on the last pages shows results beside case #'s. Hopefully they just saved the file wrong before it was formatted because it's pretty useless the way it is!

 

[aj]

So what was Ready Go x really out of.

 

[jaimiediamond]

An updated heifer bull list!

 

[JoeBnTN]

There's a couple of interesting bulls that are service sires in the Sun Country sale that are what would qualify as heifer bulls. Hillside Leader from Horseshoe Creek and Muridale Bonanza 85W from Macbeth and Uluru. The HC Touchdown bull looks like he will also be a heifer bull.

We continue to be very satisfied with Leader as a calving ease sire. To date all calves have come unassisted and only one has been over 80 lbs.  What's starting to get us even more excited is the way the calves develop.  Below are two Leader heifer calves that we really like - the roan is a May out of a SS Deadwood 2-year old and was 6 mos old when this was taken.  The red heifer is a late July and is just starting to come together.  We would consider both of these as possible show heifers, even though they are out of a calving ease bull.  I think it just goes to show that good cattle can come in all kinds of packages and with different types of genetics.

When you look at the Elbee breeding and Matador on the top side it would seem Leader is breeding true and is real calving ease. Nice looking calves.

Thanks!!  We're very pleased with the calves we've had. Although they are limited in number there is a certain consistency we appreciate - especially in their skeleton.  All are very sound.  I was home for Christmas and the two heifers pictured are still getting better.  The July is going to be a keeper for sure and will likely end up in my niece's show string.  Both should make very good cows.

 

[Okotoks]

The Eionmor Marquis 86G was mentioned earlier. I see Lot 18 in the Durhams for Denver is by him. Solid red polled and out of a JPJ dam. His BW is 82 lbs. with a -1.2 BW EPD.
I like the Lot 19 bull. He is out of an 86G daughter and by a JPJ son. BW 81 lbs. with a -0.1 BW EPD. Red and horned but looks like one of the best calves.
Looks like a good group. The SBR TSUNAMI 20T calves look interesting.