Shorty hf bulls

[sue]

I used a pasture photo of Ultimate Type in our July Shorthorn Country ad in the mid 80's.  I've got some other copies around somewhere, I'll look for one.  He did not have sheath problems. 

I found a ultimate type daughter in a Dean Farms in a 93 issue.... is that right? is the same bull

 

[OH Breeder]

funny u should assume my location sue.  thanks for the atempted advice if u look through my previus posts u will see I had already stated I liked the Canadian bulls u listed I might add I can't get Prophecy til fall as he isn't available in cattlevisions yet.  I think u consistntly shove ur foot in  ur mouth I dont care about pedigree I want something that can produce females that can calve and I want a bull that makes that promotes that your MCE ratings on ur bull and his ancestors is also low

Schaff Angus Valley, the oldest ongoing registered Angus operation in North Dakota
Kelly Schaff (Schaff Angus Valley, an operation near St. Anthony, North Dakota, that has been producing registered Angus since the 1940’s) made this statement in the July 2008 Angus Journal, generating overwhelming response from his fellow Angus breeders:

“Much of the Angus industry is caught up in chasing figures and number values and have forgotten the relevant traits, physical conformation and functionality that the breed was based on. This movement has created a large population of Angus cattle that are no better than the computers and academics used to create them. This has many of the breed’s most loyal commercial cattlemen baffled and even seeking the use of crossbred and exotic bulls. Fashionable figures don’t pay the bills when cattle are marketed across the scale, and grid premiums are not premiums when they are offset by additional days on feed to finish while yielding significantly less carcass weight. If the promotion of figures is leading us to breed narrow, shallow, hard-doing Angus that look and function like a Wagyu, it may be better to switch breeds that to erode the elements of the Angus breed that have made it the greatest beef breed in the world.”

Schaff says the whole reason for the existence of registered, purebred cattle is to produce seed stock bulls for the commercial industry.

“The commercial industry needs great cattle, not just cattle with great numbers. You can have both in balance, but the essential requirements of great cattle must come first so as not to jeopardize the quality of the breed."


OR

At Jauer Dependable Genetics, we are committed to the production of efficient beef cows that work in the real world.  Each year, more and more cattle breeders desire cattle that can function in real world (grass) environments.  There is less emphasis on selection for extreme E.P.D. numbers and more selection pressure being put on traits that affect the total value and longevity of the cow herd.    Traits such as udder quality, sound feet, good dispositions, and fleshing ability are again becoming cornerstones of top breeding programs across the country.  Over the years we have stayed a committed course in selecting for these kinds of traits.   The consistency our cattle produce will be evident in the replacement females you retain for your herds

 

[rarebirdz]

I find it interesting that sue can attack people for no reason see her attack on page 69 for example I could take the time to show u more users that have had the wrath of sue for no apparent reason. Has anyone seen where that user on page 69 bashed sues program? I couldn't find it anywhere. I was attacked the first time by asking if a bull was foundered or to see if there was another video of a bull since the quality was poor.  I am sick and tired of sue claiming to know best perhaps she works for lots of people but she isnt always appearing to be honest one minute she is preaching numbers are important when she is trashing an animal next she is claiming they aren't important as they involve a animal she promotes. Which is it?

I have been producing cattle from pasture to hook for more years then I would ever care to admit, I need soundness.  I like a few shortie bulls a lot as stated before I thought a shortie could help with calving time in the future. I dont listen to breeders so much as my own gut sue asked me also on page 69 why stop at 100lbs? Well sue I don't care how much it weighs as long as i find it up and sucking.  I dont have time to mess around with calving problems from the sire or the dam. 

OH breeder u like sue she found u a bull that works great for u and ur program but it doesn't change the fact that she is a unimidgated sow to people who don't think of her as the ultimat source of information. 

 

[Okotoks]

Quote from: sue on December 22, 2010, 08:32:16 PM
HARD TO BREED IS HARD CALVE.

PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE MY COMMENT WITH THE REST..... like duuhh, if they calve hard they breed back slow??

THE EGG.... DOES COME BEFORE THE CHICKEN.

lONG LIVE YOUR JOURNEY . BUT TRUST ME WHEN I SAY .... " YOU HAVE NOTHING IF THEY DONT BREED AND GIVE YOU A LIVE CALF" ....Like if you would like to swap notes on infertility I have a folder fulll and Had a  $70,000 debt.

my reply
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #786 on: December 23, 2010, 12:49:15 PM »
Hmm, well I don’t have a folder full of fertility problems to discuss with anyone. I only know of one bull in Alberta that sired some heifers that were hard to get in calf and that was in the mid 80’s. I have never had an issue with heifers getting in calf; I have had some that got in calf as heifer calves which is kind of the opposite problem.  It’s almost as though we are living in alternate realities here. I am not trying discount or trivialize what you say but when someone like JTM has a goal and program why do you want to be negative about it? Seems to me if you had such a train wreck going you should have gone looking for different genetics a lot sooner. As for crossing Shorthorns with Angus my Uncle did that in the late 60’s (long before Angus was cool). He had a lot of easy fleshing maintenance free cattle. Later he crossed his Angus/Shorthorn to Limousin for his terminal cross. I think my cousin still has descendants from this program. My point is that crossbreeding is nothing new.(I know it’s composites now) A lot of our customers cross their Shorthorns with Charolais and Simmental so getting the cows to 1200 lbs. won’t work for them. Each market is different and I like to learn about the issues others face, if your reality is different then that’s well and good.  Probably could have ignored that post but the “duuhh” kinda got to me.
[/qoute]

okotoks. Unless your name is Fred as in Flinstone .... I doubt anyone in the purebred business of shorthorn thinks that the false reporting of information within the  shorthorn breed was invented in Dunlap, Iowa????  This whole thing just makes me laugh ...  Like who cares ... now you think we have a calving problem and we didnt in the 90's????? I have friends outside the breed that worked in sh herds with bloodlines like Rodeo Drive ... that pulled calves with Nissan trucks in the 90's.  Please dont get me started .  

I agree with rarebirdz on this one, I have been b*tch slapped a few times by Sue when I least expected it.  Above are two examples.  I am still a bit grumpy about it.  I have friends and acquaintances that think the world of Sue , maybe face to face it would all be better but I'm still stuck on YABBA DABBA DO!  ???

 

[sue]

funny u should assume my location sue.  thanks for the atempted advice if u look through my previus posts u will see I had already stated I liked the Canadian bulls u listed I might add I can't get Prophecy til fall as he isn't available in cattlevisions yet.  I think u consistntly shove ur foot in  ur mouth I dont care about pedigree I want something that can produce females that can calve and I want a bull that makes that promotes that your MCE ratings on ur bull and his ancestors is also low

Sorry the bull I should  reccomend to you is Diamond Regal - Kohlsteadts in MO had a incredible set of calves by this bull. However ASA field reps had completely thrown this sire group under the bus. I however really appreciated the traditional type of shorthorn bred back into this group . I infact called the field reps after this herd viist after this visit.. It did nt stop there though- I felt so good about a few of the fall yrlings I called a friend in Alabama. But in the end I think the customer in colorado was contending bidder - that was based on my worthless travels .
Hey, please leave OH breeder out of this - cuz I recommended he buy the bull from Todd Clark. I walked thru Todds group last spring too. OH breedr needed a older bull moderate enough to cover heifers and cows. MY yrling  "dink's were too moderate to do both- I was honest enough to tell oh breeder.

Hey- anyone that heard my opinions of Diamond Regal- I feel the same. Stop and see this bull at kohlsteadts or Aldens.
Rarebirdz I dont even begin to think I can satisfy everyone. 
Glad you all have reviewed this very long post about calving ease shorthorns- we have gone in complete circles.
Dan - no I dont want to use every bull you bred and I am sure you dont need to drink my koolaid either- let's just leave it at that. I think we both represent the breed just fine.
Hey for the record- yep I tried to import semen on a bull called Saskvalley Bonanza ( in 05)- he never left the farm but I promoted the crap out him. It rocked alot of folks down here in the US - I still think he's a fine fella, just never became eligible for semen export. So many that swore they would never use a 5 frame used him.
I m fine with all of it - glad it's my turn to be picked on- just leave it at that.

 

[Okotoks]

Houston seemed to be bull ahead of his time. The Una relatives (I think Merle Welch-Bucholtz had some) that I saw in pictuers about 20 years ago were very cool and thick. Did Ultimate type have alot of sheath?-I have heard that but he didnt appear that way in pictures-ditto: on Lazy D HL Quane-I have only seen 2 daughters in person--they were really thick. O0

Was the Houston bull collected?
Those Una cows should be put in the cow family thread!
Here are three that go back to Lazy D Deerpark Una I love the looks of at Little Cedar.

 

[Doc]

Isnt that top one , the one sired by Weston Dynamo?
I saw the bottom one sell as a weanling. That was the 1st time I saw Red Rider Drive, he was getting dropped off to head south. Those Unas' are awesome females.

 

[Okotoks]

Isnt that top one , the one sired by Weston Dynamo?
I saw the bottom one sell as a weanling. That was the 1st time I saw Red Rider Drive, he was getting dropped off to head south. Those Unas' are awesome females.

The top one is by the Weston Dynamo bull. Looks like he worked well considering he was from the 1970's!
Hiighfield Irish Mist was out the original Highfield Una cow, also the dam of Highfield Una 3 and Highfield Una 4th. Mist was great calving ease bull and his daughters were some of the best mother cows I have ever seen. (clapping)

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I find it interesting that sue can attack people for no reason see her attack on page 69 for example I could take the time to show u more users that have had the wrath of sue for no apparent reason. Has anyone seen where that user on page 69 bashed sues program? I couldn't find it anywhere. I was attacked the first time by asking if a bull was foundered or to see if there was another video of a bull since the quality was poor.  I am sick and tired of sue claiming to know best perhaps she works for lots of people but she isnt always appearing to be honest one minute she is preaching numbers are important when she is trashing an animal next she is claiming they aren't important as they involve a animal she promotes. Which is it?

I have been producing cattle from pasture to hook for more years then I would ever care to admit, I need soundness.  I like a few shortie bulls a lot as stated before I thought a shortie could help with calving time in the future. I dont listen to breeders so much as my own gut sue asked me also on page 69 why stop at 100lbs? Well sue I don't care how much it weighs as long as i find it up and sucking.  I dont have time to mess around with calving problems from the sire or the dam. 

OH breeder u like sue she found u a bull that works great for u and ur program but it doesn't change the fact that she is a unimidgated sow to people who don't think of her as the ultimat source of information. 

Who are you rarebirdz? Honest question. P.M. it to me if you have to. First thing I remember from you was a pretty rude, know it all response to a bull you knew nothing about. I still dont get it. You raise cattle from pasture to the hook yet you dont know what bloodlines you use. Maybe you have done it long enough you dont care. Thats just odd to me. I never really got a straight answer. How come the only bulls whos numbers are being questioned right now are decsendants of Capt Ob? Hasnt it been stated 5,000,000 times the shorthorn epd's are bunk anyways!   Certain places  have true numbers but you have to know where to look. I respect the fact you raise cattle commercially and have been at it a long time. Im sure I could learn something from you. However, you can learn something from us to.  Any shorthorn you choose is just fine in my book. Im just glad you want to give them a try. If you got plenty of corn and hay, Capt Obv or 329 may not be your cup of tea. Life rolls on. Can anyone name me somebody who has made more herd visits then sue? How many other breeders that have one of the most popular bulls in the breed right now are active speakers on here? At least she speaks her mind. I dont have time to listen to your last 5 years of sales reports and how much money you have made if i want to buy a bull.  sue should work for the ASA IMO.

 

[OH Breeder]

the fact that she is a unimidgated sow to people who don't think of her as the ultimat source of information. 

there's your sign......I don't remember any threads posted by sue calling you any names. .... Nice language rarebirdz.....

I find it interesting that someone so hell bent on being "commercially" oriented is crusing a board that is frequented by people in the show cattle industry. Yes this boards for ALL cattle enthusiasts but reality is the majority of the folks on here are involved with show cattle. help me understand that one.

If you think the post by sue are bad then you ahven't been around long. There once was a poster who would call you everything but your name and send you personal messages and emails with sometimes worse language. I think some of you need to grow a set and get over it. Nothing wrong with debate but is it really necessary to call someone names?

 

[jaimiediamond]

(argue) moving on... until further notice

I thought I would put up our 2011 heifer bull Alta Cedar Timeless 36X.  His pedigree and epds (his growth is probably a bit high for his actual performance).  I keep meaning to get another photo of him but I admit to being easily distracted and thus far have failed on that mission.

What bulls are you guys using on heifers this year? Are their any changes or updates for the heifer bull list from last year? I know of a couple that had to be deleted!

 

[OH Breeder]

(argue) moving on... until further notice

I thought I would put up our 2011 heifer bull Alta Cedar Timeless 36X.  His pedigree and epds (his growth is probably a bit high for his actual performance).  I keep meaning to get another photo of him but I admit to being easily distracted and thus far have failed on that mission.

What bulls are you guys using on heifers this year? Are their any changes or updates for the heifer bull list from last year? I know of a couple that had to be deleted!

Did we mention Wymore? Elbee Leader

 

[jaimiediamond]

It appears I haven't got him is that his full registered name?  He is a really nice bull Do you have calving experience on heifers with him?

Are you using your Jake's Unbelievable 245U bull on heifers this year? I am very intrigued with his pedigree not often an animal is linebred to Leader 21st with it showing in the pedigree in this day of age.

 

[OH Breeder]

It appears I haven't got him is that his full registered name?  He is a really nice bull Do you have calving experience on heifers with him?

Are you using your Jake's Unbelievable 245U bull on heifers this year? I am very intrigued with his pedigree not often an animal is linebred to Leader 21st with it showing in the pedigree in this day of age.

ELBEE LEADER 321N              RR x4081003  Yes, I did breed him to a more moderate built Heat Seeker heifer. Her momma could calve an elephant. From what I have heard first hand is that his calves come easy.

Unbelievable is was turned out the first weekend of June. I did use him on a group that were late bred and missed. So they will calve first calf as three year olds. As you saw, his pedigree is loaded with calving ease genetics. He has alot of bone and natural muscle very masculine bull.
I have a direct daughter of leader 21st as well I was able to secure from a SP member. She has such a pretty tight udder.

 

[Doc]

Isnt that top one , the one sired by Weston Dynamo?
I saw the bottom one sell as a weanling. That was the 1st time I saw Red Rider Drive, he was getting dropped off to head south. Those Unas' are awesome females.

The top one is by the Weston Dynamo bull. Looks like he worked well considering he was from the 1970's!
Hiighfield Irish Mist was out the original Highfield Una cow, also the dam of Highfield Una 3 and Highfield Una 4th. Mist was great calving ease bull and his daughters were some of the best mother cows I have ever seen. (clapping)

You are right on the Mist dtrs. I think they are pretty nice as a whole. I have one that is out of the original Scarlet O'Hare cow. She is nursing her 3rd calf, it's a bull by Moombi Powerplay. Ben & Sharon from Sharben Shorthorns were here on Sunday & couldn't get over the muscle expression he had & yet still had a very nice front end. 

 

[justintime]

As I have mentioned on here before, Irish Mist is one of my all time favorite bulls, even with the changing trends through the decades since we brought him to Canada.It is hard for me to believe that it is now 37 years since we imported him from Ireland.He walked our pastures until he was 13 years old when he died on the operating table after having a twisted gut. If that had not happened I am certain he could have bred cows for a few more years.At 13 years of age, he could still out walk most any man when he was on pasture. He patrolled the female herd like a stud horse, and when one was in heat he would breed her once and then leave her alone. This is probably part of the reason of why he could breed so many cows each year.  As a 12 year old he settled 90 cows naturally and some years he bred over 100 cows. He was a truly amazing bull, in that he could handle this number of cows and still come in from pasture in better shape that when he went out. Mist was also unique amongst Irish sires as he never had his feet trimmed and never needed them done. His mother was a white cow named Highfiled Una, and I can still remember seeing the pictures of her on the hotel room wall when one of my partners in the Irish cattle, Don Murphy, came back from Ireland. This cow is the main reason we decided to bring Irish Mist to Canada. She was a tremendous cow with a flawless udder, and Don Murphy considered her the best female in the Maloney herd, as well as one of the very best he saw in Ireland at the time. Irish Mist was a bull who must have had a bunch of good uddered females in his background, as he could clean up even the worst udder in one generation. I have never seen a poor uddered Mist daughter. One of the main reasons I liked Mist's daughters was that they seemed to nick well with most any other bloodline. I always felt that you could breed a Mist daughter to a bull of any other bloodline and get offerspring that were saleable. When we imported Irish Mist and two females from Ireland, these cattle had no registration status in any country. The Irish government was just starting to try to document these cattle and they were successful in adding them to the Coates herd book. I personally don't feel that there was enough evidence of any purity for these cattle to be included into a closed registry, but that is water under the bridge. From what I have been told, the man who was in charge of managing the Coates Herd book at the time, would add most any animal to this registry, if he was provided with a crock of whiskey. We decided to bring these cattle across the pond regardless if they had any pedigrees or not, as we felt they offered great improvement in some areas the Shorthorn breed really needed some help at that time, and I think history has proven that they did provide this help in these areas.
I think the Una female line should be mentioned in the great lines of females in the breed. Lazy D Deerpark Una was my pick as the best female in the Lazy D herd. Una 3rd and 4th were also very good females.

In regards to the great Irish cow lines, I just returned from southern Minnesota three days ago, with 7 females and a full Irish bull calf, from the great Kildysart line from Ireland. Kevin Culhane and Ned Quane always told me that the Kildysarts were the dams of greatest herd bulls in the Irish strain, and when you look back at some of the better breeding Irish sires, I think they might have been right. The females I got this week include one of the very last full Irish Kildysart's left in the world. She is a Dividend daughter out of Deerpark Kildysart 25th. The other 6 females are all descendents of her, and they are intensely linebred to this lineage. I will be trying to propogate some full Irish females to keep this line going, and am also going to be blending them with some of the sires of today. Two flushes are already sold to an Australian breeder, who has literally travelled the world trying to find any Kildysart femnales. It was this Aussie who found these cattle and contacted me about them.

 

[Okotoks]

JIT what are you using on your heifers this year?
Can you get some photos of those Kildysarts before they disappear into that long grass?
Both Deerpark Leader 13th and Deerpark Improver 2nd were out of Kildaysarts (mother- daughter)
Does anyone have that pic of Deerpark Kildysart 26, she was a linebred Kildysart and the dam of HS Rolex that was used in Australia.

<nopics>

 

[Okotoks]

Ralph sent me this picture of Coalpit Creek Leader 6th just brought in from the breeding pasture. I thought this new Y Lazy Y bull is looking pretty good and he sure reminds of his half brother Pheasant Creek Leader 4th. I maybe should have put this on the sires from the past thread but he's here today and working in Montana!
CE      BW  WW    YW      Milk  MW  MCE
10.9  -3.8    -2      -4          4      3      4.0

 

[justintime]

JIT what are you using on your heifers this year?
Can you get some photos of those Kildysarts before they disappear into that long grass?
Both Deerpark Leader 13th and Deerpark Improver 2nd were out of Kildaysarts (mother- daughter)
Does anyone have that pic of Deerpark Kildysart 26, she was a linebred Kildysart and the dam of HS Rolex that was used in Australia.

<nopics>

I'm using a son of Pheasant Creek Leader 4th on our heifers this year. He is HC Bar Code 16X ET and he is out of our B Good Red Sue 1P donor cow. He had a 75 lb  BW and is red and polled. He is thick and moderate framed and I am super impressed with how he has continued to gain weight on pasture even though he is running with 29 heifers. He is in better shape now than he was when he went out. I was planning to sychronize a set of these heifers and breed them to Hillside  Leader, but after the non stop rains and flooding started, I eventually had to turn Bar Code out with all the heifers. The Hillside Leader calves are pretty impressive and I think he is an excellent choice for use on heifers.
It seems I have been in the hay fields since I got the Kildysart cows home, but I will try to get some pictures soon.
I saw Ralph's Leader 6th bull at Genex Hawkeye West in January when we took Touchdown there. He is a very good bull. I really thought he had a lot to offer the breed. If you have a chance to see this bull, I think you will be impressed.

 

[jaimiediamond]

Here is a comparison of the 2011 Spring and  Fall EPD’s on the animals recommended on this thread. I am showing both the new and old numbers here. The Spring numbers are on top and the bottom numbers are the fall. I would like to request that you don't shoot the messenger but I highlighted positive changes in green and negative changes in red. Unchanged numbers remain bold in black. Please note an animal with a red number just means it could have shifted slightly or to an extreme, the animal might have a better number than another’s green number. I assume the changes are because more data was submitted but I don’t know the official reason for the changes so I’m just showing them.JR Conquest 62K was the winner on both CE (+15.9) and BW at (-6.9)