Shorty hf bulls

[JTM]

All I can speak of is what I have personally experienced, which isn't much compared to most Shorthorn breeders on this site. I have used several different kinds of Shorthorn genetics and have had a lot of different experiences. Not anything against the Canadian breeders but the few canadian genetics I have used (Shadybrook Scotty and Studer's Prince James) have been some of my worst experiences. The bad fertility, huge calves, and small pelvic areas I experienced with these two cows may have been due to the Trump x Rodeo Drive genetics that were mixed in with them, but that would be coincidental in my experience because I have a lot of Trump x Rodeo Drive genetics. Small pelvic areas haven't been a problem. Some of the best experiences I have had have recently come from Jake's Proud Jazz breeding. Most of my show heifers have calved unassisted to him, he has made nice, stout show heifers, herd bulls, show steers, and now two first calf heifers that calved unassisted to an Angus bull and they have nice udders. Again, this is not a bashing of any type of program and I am not saying that Jaime, your cattle are the same as the Canadian genetics listed above. My only experience with your genetics is from my two DF Waco heifers, and I love them so far. I am now trying A&T Captain Obvious and 329. I have heard a lot about these programs mainly through steer planet and like what I have heard. It is yet to be seen how they will cross with the Trump x Rodeo Drive genetics but I hope that I don't have problems with high birthweights with small pelvic areas.

 

[Doc]

I'll add 2 names to the list that I'm probably the only one using. Pa Do Boxer & Lazy D Ultimate Type.

 

[Okotoks]

I'll add 2 names to the list that I'm probably the only one using. Pa Do Boxer & Lazy D Ultimate Type.

I always thought Lazy D produced some useful bulls in their day. I would think Boxer would be appreciated more today than when he was bred, always liked the looks of him.
Do you have calves on the ground by these two this year?

 

[Doc]

I'll add 2 names to the list that I'm probably the only one using. Pa Do Boxer & Lazy D Ultimate Type.

I always thought Lazy D produced some useful bulls in their day. I would think Boxer would be appreciated more today than when he was bred, always liked the looks of him.
Do you have calves on the ground by these two this year?

I don't have any calves by these 2 this year.I had 1 hfr bred to Boxer, but I sold her this spring. I have 1 hfr calving this fall, but she is bred to CF Primo ( which I have gotten along with fine on hfrs also). Ultimate Type is a full Irish bull with decent EPDs for a full I rish bull. They make good cows also. As far as Boxer goes, I've always been a fan of his. When he was named Nat'l Champ , he was one good walking sucker.I think he was an underused bull because at the time Stouts wanted $50/straw with a 10 straw min. There was a lot of bulls cheaper & didnt have to buy a min. I've have had real good results with him over the years. About 4 or 5 yrs ago I was talking to Don Stout , when he said that the last 3 or 4 years of Boxers' life he had been breeding all his hfrs to him. After he told me that I bought 50 straws of semen on him. I'm sticking in some Boxer x Pa Do 5th Kitten eggs this fall. I would do it this spring , but I'm out of recips.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Is Ultimate type the grandsire of Green Ridge Mary 9343? I think that was her number. I always thought she was cool. I bought a grandaughter of Mary as one of my first shorthorns way back when.  She had a few good calves but came up open one year so she went to town. Merl Welch was one of the first shorthorn people I ever talked to.  doc, what cows work best on U.T?  Stouts sure bred some thick cattle when I first learned of shorthorns. Interesting to see those calves.

 

[OH Breeder]

Jamie, honestly. You are how old? How may people do you talk to a day about bulls and cattle? How many heard visits do you make each year? Your in my boat. We are not old enough to know enough. We have opinions sure. Fact is...........sue could be the most important person in the breed right now. Nobody networks like her and gets out and sees the cattle like she does. PERIOD. If this breed is to grow, it will need people like sue, r.n. reed. a@t, sneeds, Robert Shoup, JTM, Meadowlane,  etc, etc. Breed what you like and find the market where they fit.  Its our right and I hope we all make money. How many folks raise cattle in the USA anyways? Half of one percent is my guess or less. I personally like a heated discussion. It means we are getting somewhere. If folks think shorthorn folks argue, you need to do some research on angus. Keeneys Corner or 5barx chat forums will show you.

Gary Bob, I cant stop thinking about a certain bull in Ohio running with some Fancher cattle to produce some pretty sweet mongrels. Not to mention a golf day in Arkansas! aussie, bring your clubs! You can use mine if you dont have any. Rental fee is a beer.

Brock I am old enough to know when someone is a bully.  What I like, what I believe is needed which ironically has usually had a lot of agreement and with my latest thought on pelvic measurements and maternal calving ease especially.   As for Sue she might be a great person "in real life" but she has gone about everything the wrong way.  I have received some interesting private messages as of late from this bully and in all honesty I have no problem standing up and saying hello why are you attacking me? At what point have I publicly bashed any of her program? I actually spent a lot of time listing both Captain Obvious and 329 as CE options I found at least 4 times where I listed both and 8 times I mentioned 329. Ironically sue consistently puts words in my mouth, read my posts read hers I can't always figure out where she is coming from maybe you can fill in the blanks???

Moreover this latest public attack made by sue basically publicly called me out for bashing her program.  As mentioned before I think you should really look through all of my previous posts, I see nothing negative about sues program aside from the CE point I made earlier after she accused me of said bashing, and even then I pointed out he is a proven bull and his pedigree has nothing to do with the calves he himself is producing.  Its the wonderful world of genetics.

Sue had not bothered becoming interested in me until I posted the pasture pictures with Diamond Prophecy 21P and some other cattle which triggered the first threatening Private Message.  SO Brock she may be a nice person to you, but she is proving herself to be an insecure woman who jumps to conclusions with no justifiable cause.  I like my cattle, they make me happy I posted pictures not to sell but to brag its what girls do.

Amazing how email can be twisted when you can't see a person's face. Now, i have done business with sue for a few years. I have had the pleasure to visit a herd with her as well. I can not imagine Sue being a bully nor threatening. She has to be one of the friendliest people I have ever met in the shorthorn business. I don't think there is a stranger in her world. That is unfortunate you had that experience but I feel you might have misinterpreted some very sound advice from one of the best ambassadors we could have in the ASA today. I consider Sue a friend and would recommend anyone thinking about getting into this business talk to her. She is connected on so many levels. So now I will stop.... <party>.......
I have met several folks on steerplanet. Some have cattle I would never have in my herd. but it's okay that's what makes the world go around.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

Jamie, honestly. You are how old? How may people do you talk to a day about bulls and cattle? How many heard visits do you make each year? Your in my boat. We are not old enough to know enough. We have opinions sure. Fact is...........sue could be the most important person in the breed right now. Nobody networks like her and gets out and sees the cattle like she does. PERIOD. If this breed is to grow, it will need people like sue, r.n. reed. a@t, sneeds, Robert Shoup, JTM, Meadowlane,  etc, etc. Breed what you like and find the market where they fit.  Its our right and I hope we all make money. How many folks raise cattle in the USA anyways? Half of one percent is my guess or less. I personally like a heated discussion. It means we are getting somewhere. If folks think shorthorn folks argue, you need to do some research on angus. Keeneys Corner or 5barx chat forums will show you.

Gary Bob, I cant stop thinking about a certain bull in Ohio running with some Fancher cattle to produce some pretty sweet mongrels. Not to mention a golf day in Arkansas! aussie, bring your clubs! You can use mine if you dont have any. Rental fee is a beer.

+1

Brock I am old enough to know when someone is a bully.  What I like, what I believe is needed which ironically has usually had a lot of agreement and with my latest thought on pelvic measurements and maternal calving ease especially.   As for Sue she might be a great person "in real life" but she has gone about everything the wrong way.  I have received some interesting private messages as of late from this bully and in all honesty I have no problem standing up and saying hello why are you attacking me? At what point have I publicly bashed any of her program? I actually spent a lot of time listing both Captain Obvious and 329 as CE options I found at least 4 times where I listed both and 8 times I mentioned 329. Ironically sue consistently puts words in my mouth, read my posts read hers I can't always figure out where she is coming from maybe you can fill in the blanks???

Moreover this latest public attack made by sue basically publicly called me out for bashing her program.  As mentioned before I think you should really look through all of my previous posts, I see nothing negative about sues program aside from the CE point I made earlier after she accused me of said bashing, and even then I pointed out he is a proven bull and his pedigree has nothing to do with the calves he himself is producing.  Its the wonderful world of genetics.

Sue had not bothered becoming interested in me until I posted the pasture pictures with Diamond Prophecy 21P and some other cattle which triggered the first threatening Private Message.  SO Brock she may be a nice person to you, but she is proving herself to be an insecure woman who jumps to conclusions with no justifiable cause.  I like my cattle, they make me happy I posted pictures not to sell but to brag its what girls do.

Amazing how email can be twisted when you can't see a person's face. Now, i have done business with sue for a few years. I have had the pleasure to visit a herd with her as well. I can not imagine Sue being a bully nor threatening. She has to be one of the friendliest people I have ever met in the shorthorn business. I don't think there is a stranger in her world. That is unfortunate you had that experience but I feel you might have misinterpreted some very sound advice from one of the best ambassadors we could have in the ASA today. I consider Sue a friend and would recommend anyone thinking about getting into this business talk to her. She is connected on so many levels. So now I will stop.... <party>.......
I have met several folks on steerplanet. Some have cattle I would never have in my herd. but it's okay that's what makes the world go around.

 

[jaimiediamond]

Do  a herd visit or two- stop bashing me and my bull(s). I promote shorthorns ... period.  Have a good day - 

Anyone and everyone should  look through all of my previous posts to find out where I bashed her program.  Obviously there is a huge communication lapse going on ??? Interpretation is a dangerous thing on an online forum and to be honest I am confused.  I know a lot of people I enjoy respect sue, so we have obviously got our wires crossed.

 

[oakview]

I believe the Green Ridge Mary cow you are referring to is out of a full sister to Ultimate Type, Lazy D Deerpark Una.  Una and Ultimate Type were sired by Deerpark Leader (the original) and out of Highfield Una 3rd.  There has been discussion on this board before about them.  I purchased Ultimate Type from Lazy D in the fall of 1982 as a calf.  I believe the Deerpark Una heifer had won the Missouri State Fair that summer.  She was an outstanding female.  If I could find the photo of Ultimate Type I took at Lazy D's before I purchased him, it would knock your socks off.  Richard and Larry told me they named him for a reason.  We used Ultimate Type for several years with good success.  If I was a younger man with a larger herd, I'd sure use him extensively today.  As far as Boxer goes, the Stouts raised some very noteworthy bulls over the years, but Boxer was my favorite.  In my opinion, he had the style and eye appeal that the others lacked.  I have two daughters in my herd, but would be very happy with more.  Might even be asterisk free for those so inclined.  I'll look it up.

 

[oakview]

Sorry I forgot about Fifth Avenue in Boxer's pedigree.  He has the dreaded asterisk!  Still a good bull worth using.  By the way, Hollywood Avenue and Houston would be worth using if there was semen around.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Houston seemed to be bull ahead of his time. The Una relatives (I think Merle Welch-Bucholtz had some) that I saw in pictuers about 20 years ago were very cool and thick. Did Ultimate type have alot of sheath?-I have heard that but he didnt appear that way in pictures-ditto: on Lazy D HL Quane-I have only seen 2 daughters in person--they were really thick. O0

 

[sue]

I dont think anyone on this board -  has false energy. For all the years I was involved in sales - alot of what I had to sell was selling to a crowd and not a specific individual's need. ( pre- cattle)

Having left a mulitmillon dollar environment I have found alot more satifaction in offering what I enjoy.

I realize when you leave the popular crowd ... it makes the task more difficult.  Seeking a herd like alll that I have represented was a easy task for ME but maybe the impossible for the breeder(s) involved.  For most of 3 to 4 years of representing a bull ... I get "bashed" or bullied. Eventually it's cool to have a son of that SOB that I started to promote 4 years ago.
It's ok - building a brand is not a easy task and when you want to represent a solid red shorthorn bull back by multiple generations of calving ease or cowboy genetics.
The commerical cattlemen takes note but the fellow breeder finds a easy place to oppose? In the end it's the commerical guy that buys more? I have done the math.
I am here for all. and frankly I even attempted to promote a roan bull not eligible for US import. 

Doc I dont know a thing about the bulls you posted and would care to know more. Who has pictures?

 

[OH Breeder]

Pa Do Boxer

 

[OH Breeder]

As recent as 2005 Martindell was using Lazy D Ultimate Type. Haven't found any pics of him.

 

[Doc]

As recent as 2005 Martindell was using Lazy D Ultimate Type. Haven't found any pics of him.

At Bucholz Dispersal I bought about 60 straws of semen on U T. Didn't need that much so I sold some of it to CF Martin. They used it on hfrs . I will look tonite for a pic on him. I still have my Lazy D semen sale flyer package that they mailed out years ago that had pics of all the bulls they sold semen on.

 

[oakview]

I used a pasture photo of Ultimate Type in our July Shorthorn Country ad in the mid 80's.  I've got some other copies around somewhere, I'll look for one.  He did not have sheath problems. 

 

[rarebirdz]

I dont think anyone on this board -  has false energy. For all the years I was involved in sales - alot of what I had to sell was selling to a crowd and not a specific individual's need. ( pre- cattle)

Having left a mulitmillon dollar environment I have found alot more satifaction in offering what I enjoy.

I realize when you leave the popular crowd ... it makes the task more difficult.  Seeking a herd like alll that I have represented was a easy task for ME but maybe the impossible for the breeder(s) involved.  For most of 3 to 4 years of representing a bull ... I get "bashed" or bullied. Eventually it's cool to have a son of that SOB that I started to promote 4 years ago.
It's ok - building a brand is not a easy task and when you want to represent a solid red shorthorn bull back by multiple generations of calving ease or cowboy genetics.
The commerical cattlemen takes note but the fellow breeder finds a easy place to oppose? In the end it's the commerical guy that buys more? I have done the math.
I am here for all. and frankly I even attempted to promote a roan bull not eligible for US import. 

Doc I dont know a thing about the bulls you posted and would care to know more. Who has pictures?

I am a comercial breeder and you and ur felow breeders that preach to be listening to the comercial cattle man attacked me.  The bull I assume you are talking about has a grandsire with -9.6 ce his sire -3.8 ce  that means he has multiple generations of ce? I guess in ur world it does?  Maybe cowboy genetics but not ce.   

 

[sue]

I stood right next to JG Red Cloud when he was 11 years old. He was used hard for spring and fall breeding @ Good Family Shorthorns  (who also have black cows). I am leaning more tword Cowboy genetics .  JG Red cloud daughters and sons have been great additions to shorthorn

  It's too bad GFS has back away from Shorthorns- yet cool to see so many going back to there stuff.

The reccomendation from GFS  to me was drive to meadowlane and see the 7026 ( son of Red Cloud) he was more moderate and a great breeding bull as well.

GFS Red Cloud, GFS Creole. None of these bulls are available in Canada rarebirdz- you'll have to stick to ramrod,  prophecy and the rest offered up there.  Or if you're not opposed to appendix try a goldspear son. Bonanza is very moderate but he might work too.

 

[rarebirdz]

funny u should assume my location sue.  thanks for the atempted advice if u look through my previus posts u will see I had already stated I liked the Canadian bulls u listed I might add I can't get Prophecy til fall as he isn't available in cattlevisions yet.  I think u consistntly shove ur foot in  ur mouth I dont care about pedigree I want something that can produce females that can calve and I want a bull that makes that promotes that your MCE ratings on ur bull and his ancestors is also low

 

[OH Breeder]

funny u should assume my location sue.  thanks for the atempted advice if u look through my previus posts u will see I had already stated I liked the Canadian bulls u listed I might add I can't get Prophecy til fall as he isn't available in cattlevisions yet.  I think u consistntly shove ur foot in  ur mouth I dont care about pedigree I want something that can produce females that can calve and I want a bull that makes that promotes that your MCE ratings on ur bull and his ancestors is also low

You know I read through some of the above post. Maybe if you weren't so nasty in your responses you wouldn't get attacked.

You get what you give.