American Muscle Pic

[cowz]

Hey Jill!!!

I'm with you lady!!  I realize that certificates are a fact of life, but I would much rather pay an extra $20 per straw not to have the hassle to contact the breeder or request the cert thru the assoc.  When you deal with several breeds like we do, it truly is brain damage to remember the "flow chart" and proper procedure for each breed.  I have a little "list of things to do" in my registrations binder to remind me the little quirks of filling out papers for each "flavor"!

 

[sjcattleco]

Whoa!! here now!!

is the cattle business a business or are you guys complaining that your hobby costs too much!!!

SHOOT in the Herf association Certs are $100 plus! 

Man the cert thing cuts your breeding costs in half!!! 

 

[Jill]

Whoa!! here now!!

is the cattle business a business or are you guys complaining that your hobby costs too much!!!

SHOOT in the Herf association Certs are $100 plus! 

Man the cert thing cuts your breeding costs in half!!! 

Ok, I'll take the bait, how on earth does the cert thing cut my breeding cost in half?  My main business is Maine-Anjou and clubbies, we do very little with Shorthorns, but I have not seen a difference at all in my breeding cost for Maines and Shorthorns. 
Herefords are a really bad comparison for me, you couldn't give me one much less pay for a certificate on top of that.  Don't mean to offend anyone, just haven't figured out the reason for them (certificates not Herefords ).

 

[OH Breeder]

Whoa!! here now!!

is the cattle business a business or are you guys complaining that your hobby costs too much!!!

SHOOT in the Herf association Certs are $100 plus! 

Man the cert thing cuts your breeding costs in half!!! 

Cuts breeding cost in half. I am missing something again. Is this one of those post like another site where part of it is missing? If the breeder wants to profit off of certs I do NOT agree with that. They only cost you $5. The rest is profit. YOu make a call they transfer them at the ASA to the customer account. It would seem to me like the breeder is trying to make up sales by charging more for certs. Gizmo the original I bought last week from SEK. 15 for cert 10 processing $100 for semen.
Scott, do you do the WHR for your herd? That seems to be expensive to me as well.

 

[sjcattleco]

Ok we can price semen at $40 and who cares if your calves are crap!!! I got my money up front.. I look at it in the way that a breeder/bull owner  is assuming part of the risk....

buy a breeding share and we will make the certs FREE!!! hows that???

I would love to talk to folks that hopefully need a cert on AM.. Would really like to find out the details and take notes on what the calf is.....

 

[sjcattleco]

yep we are WHR!! its a cost of doing business... we register such a large percentage of our calf crop about 75% that It was cheaper for me to go that route!!

 

[OH Breeder]

Ok we can price semen at $40 and who cares if your calves are crap!!! I got my money up front.. I look at it in the way that a breeder/bull owner  is assuming part of the risk....

buy a breeding share and we will make the certs FREE!!! hows that???

I would love to talk to folks that hopefully need a cert on AM.. Would really like to find out the details and take notes on what the calf is.....

Explain, how are you taking risk by issuing a cert. I am not understanding that. help...

 

[sjcattleco]

pay $40 dollars for semen on a bull + $5 for cert  ..... Calves don't suit you so you have spent $40 to find out you don't like them

Pay $25 for semen on bull calves don't suit you  you saved $15 bucks

Pay $25 for semen and $25 for cert.. got  8 calves 6 you can use!! 4 heifers and 1 bull 1 steer... Average value price of the 6 calves is $1300... Value is based on what heifers kept in herd are worth plus what you might get for the steer and bull and a sale heifer....... Value is $7800 not cash but value....  cert cost is $150.. I would spend $150 to add value to cattle to make them worth $7800 any day!!!

 

[stick]

Wasn't the point of the cert originally to more or less verify that  the person registering the calf actually purchased semen on the said sire of the calf? Also to eliminate the hastle of having to get the owner of the sires signature on the registration form?  Without the cert, anyone could say that their heifer was sired by Trump or whoever. Look at all the WMW and Heat Waves (and others) out there that weren't actually sired by those bulls.

 

[OH Breeder]

Wasn't the point of the cert originally to more or less verify that  the person registering the calf actually purchased semen on the said sire of the calf? Also to eliminate the hastle of having to get the owner of the sires signature on the registration form?  Without the cert, anyone could say that their heifer was sired by Trump or whoever. Look at all the WMW and Heat Waves (and others) out there that weren't actually sired by those bulls.

IE Mossy Oak- discovered through genetic defect testing pedigree was suspect. now that we are testing all of our offspring for TH and PH DNA has to be verified. This would supercede the need for a certificate. If it was mandatory all SHorthorns were tested for Genetic defects no Certs needed.
I also have seen people buy certs and register another calf....What you say, people using certs on calves that are from them....

 

[sjcattleco]

I always assumed that certs were for 2 things... 1 to do what I described in the 2 last posts and 2 was to generate a little money for the breed association!

 

[OH Breeder]

What market segment are you hoping the bull will fit into? Commercial, purebred, club or all. It is just my humble opinion, but, each of those folks are motivated by different things. If you are marketing to the commecial guy, who may careless if they are registered or not, you will never make a cert on him. If the calf performs and makes it to the rail then he will be a repeat semen customer. Purebred, well you know as well as I there are variety of motivating factors for purebred breeders.
Club folks, every nicket and dime counts. Smaller operations, more expense in preparation for sale every dollar willl add to the final cost of the calf. Although this market may be impractical and at times care free in regards to cost. I think they will be less likely to purchase if certs are high.
SO, back to my original question, What market do you hope this bull fits into? Or who are you targeting?
I am lost on the 1300 translates into 7800. I am assuming that is replacement value verses actual cost?

 

[sjcattleco]

What market segment are you hoping the bull will fit into? Commercial, purebred, club or all. It is just my humble opinion, but, each of those folks are motivated by different things. If you are marketing to the commecial guy, who may careless if they are registered or not, you will never make a cert on him. If the calf performs and makes it to the rail then he will be a repeat semen customer. Purebred, well you know as well as I there are variety of motivating factors for purebred breeders.
Club folks, every nicket and dime counts. Smaller operations, more expense in preparation for sale every dollar willl add to the final cost of the calf. Although this market may be impractical and at times care free in regards to cost. I think they will be less likely to purchase if certs are high.
SO, back to my original question, What market do you hope this bull fits into? Or who are you targeting?
I am lost on the 1300 translates into 7800. I am assuming that is replacement value verses actual cost?

Ok in the last example I gave I assumed that someone had 6 out of 8 AI calves that were worth registering... and I assigned the group of 6 and average value  per head price of $1300.... 6 X $1300 = $7800 in value... realisticly they are worth about $650 each at the the local feedyard.....so wouldn't you pay a cert fee to increase the value of your cattle from $650 to $1300? I would.... that is what business is all about!!!

What market??? Looks like all of them.... I guess I am trying to accomodate as many people as I can... I am making semen affordable.. .. i will sell it by the straw.... I will sell it by the package with bulk discounts.....Oh yea if CB3 or who ever that was orders 2 canes i am going to send them an AM HAT!!!!!!!!I might even include that in the deal!! who knows..... I have a cool one pick out that matches our up coming ad in the Shorthorn Country!!

 

[OH Breeder]

LOL, I will be looking for that AM hat.....  ;D

 

[sjcattleco]

LOL, I will be looking for that AM hat.....  ;D

Hey if that is what it takes to get some semen out there I am all for it!!!!!!

 

[knabe]

i guess i'm naive on something that was typed.  people misregister calves out of mossy oak, heat wave, who made who.  why isn't the breed organization taking a little stand here by requiring that before they can accept registrations out of the son of above?  not sure if i said that right, but to ET my cows, i have to have them typed.  why aren't the sons typed, or are people just saying so and so steer is out of the above since he's a dead ender anyway.  now if that was a heifer, i'd be pissed, and would hope that implied contracts had sufficient pressure to keep this to a minimum.

 

[Jill]

I think that reference was just for an example, not really for the Shorthorn side although I am sure it happens everywhere.
What they are saying is that I have a fabulous steer calf that is out of my herd bull, the only way to get someone to come and look at the calf is to call it a Heat Wave and they'll come in droves. 

 

[red]

Jill, I think you hit it on the head! The nephews found that when even selling steers that saying they came from out herd bull Jake just didn't get any interest. but boy if you tell someone you have a Heatwave steer they'll come running. Then is the long run they ended up going home w/ the Jake calf because he was by far better.

Go figure,
Red

 

[knabe]

that top 40 songjavascript:void(0); needs to be replaced with a cold front    :-*

 

[knabe]

try again, dang

that top 40 song  O0  needs to be replaced with a cold front    Kiss