Potential genetic defect in Shorthorn cattle

[hbcc]

will anyone say what bull and his sons these calves are out of ?

 

[knabe]

just let the research work and cut the BS.

 

[knabe]

ildeno was rumored to have mulefoot, perhaps because he had a huge abscess on his left rear foot.

supposedly he was bred to quite a few daughters and none were found to be afflicted.

don't know how many daughters.

if he is a carrier, it would be another positional mutation source.  his semen is only $7 i think.

once all these single gene recessives are solved, people are really going to freak out about the multi-genic ones.

can't wait for all the innuendo and high mindedness.

maybe it will be piled higher and deeper rather than just more bs.

 

[frostback]

Merry Christmas frostyback. I give her a neg karma for being a weenie and she gives me 2 back. Talk about not taking the heat.......get out of the kitchen!

JA was whining about being tag teamed, but I guess he has a cheerleader too, a hypocrite till the end in so so many ways.  <party>

 

[DL]

aj - send in a sample on your calf from the other post - suspiciously looks like what we are talking about - sorry your phone is tapped

 

[aj]

I'll get him in and do the purple tube top deal and maybe get a better pic. I was thinking about fattening him out. Maybe when he was harvested I could save the leg if stephens from N.U. or someone wants it.

 

[DL]

I'll get him in and do the purple tube top deal and maybe get a better pic. I was thinking about fattening him out. Maybe when he was harvested I could save the leg if stephens from N.U. or someone wants it.

that Sir would be fabulous

winters comin' don't let the frost bite 

 

[aj]

 

[farwest]

I noticed on a previous post the words shorthorn and commercial mentioned in the same sentence. I wish these buyers in cattle country nebraska were smart and wouldn't discount these shorthorn looking cattle in some major barns by at least 20 bucks a hundred.  Hmm. 

 

[aj]

Has anybody have a calf like the calf on page one(out of a non shorthorn cow)?

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Merry Christmas frostyback. I give her a neg karma for being a weenie and she gives me 2 back. Talk about not taking the heat.......get out of the kitchen!

JA was whining about being tag teamed, but I guess he has a cheerleader too, a hypocrite till the end in so so many ways.  <party>

Wishing someone crashes into the ditch is a little over the line dont you think frosty? You are the karma police after all.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I noticed on a previous post the words shorthorn and commercial mentioned in the same sentence. I wish these buyers in cattle country nebraska were smart and wouldn't discount these shorthorn looking cattle in some major barns by at least 20 bucks a hundred.  Hmm. 

The guy who is buying the off colored cattle is laughing all the way to the bank IMO. Not all shorthorns are feedlot friendly but even the show ones will do alright on full feed.

 

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

<cowboy>

Hang tough AJ, your posts have always been welcomed by me.

 

[jaimiediamond]

I noticed on a previous post the words shorthorn and commercial mentioned in the same sentence. I wish these buyers in cattle country nebraska were smart and wouldn't discount these shorthorn looking cattle in some major barns by at least 20 bucks a hundred.  Hmm.  

The guy who is buying the off colored cattle is laughing all the way to the bank IMO. Not all shorthorns are feedlot friendly but even the show ones will do alright on full feed.

I firmly believe that as long as Shorthorn breeders push for an commercially acceptable product for their region that the US Shorthorns won't be discounted on colour.  At one point in history it was black hides that got docked so lets push for a change again. None of the Shorthorn cattle I have observed being sold in recent sales have been docked in fact the roans have gone for a premium out selling their black equals.  Another interesting point very few roan heifers sold at market went to a feed lot most went in the replacement pens. I hope that this trend continues since the Shorthorn product is an awesome one which really has  a lot to offer and at least in Alberta the commercial cattle producer and feed lot programs are stopping to take a look.

As for the potential defect it is up to us as breeders to report anything unusual and provide samples. It is also up to us as breeders not publicly discuss something that is at this time  only hearsay.  A positive outlook and breeders aiming for the commercial market being responsible is what the Shorthorn breed really needs negative energy does nothing but cause more negative energy.  Someone being positive and honest helps cause more positive energy food for thought.

 

[DL]

As for the potential defect it is up to us as breeders to report anything unusual and provide samples. It is also up to us as breeders not publicly discuss something that is at this time  only hearsay.  A positive outlook and breeders aiming for the commercial market being responsible is what the Shorthorn breed really needs negative energy does nothing but cause more negative energy.  Someone being positive and honest helps cause more positive energy food for thought.

You are kidding - right? How do you define hearsay? If we can't talk about it until we get some "official" notification hades might just freeze over - this is deja vu all over again - different defect, same ostrich

Positively speaking aj is going to submit samples on his calf that is pictured on the disappearing thread - positively speaking other breeders are now aware of the defect and there is some rib eye from a defective calf on it's way for testing - positively speaking some breeders are stepping up - positively speaking they would not have been aware had we not discussed the issue "publicly" - positively speaking if we don't know about the defect then how would we know to submit samples since the ASA had not notified the members - positively speaking I am surprised to see the ostrich again

We have an abnormality of Shorthorn calves involving the foot/leg below the hock - the phenotype is somewhat variable - all reported cases to date trace to a single Shorthorn bull or his sons - the 50K SNP Chip data suggests that the abnormality is genetic - to determine if it is genetic we need more samples -

Positively speaking keep your eyes open this calving season and if you have a calf with an abnormality as described send in samples, it is really pretty simple to be positive

 

[frostback]

Merry Christmas frostyback. I give her a neg karma for being a weenie and she gives me 2 back. Talk about not taking the heat.......get out of the kitchen!

JA was whining about being tag teamed, but I guess he has a cheerleader too, a hypocrite till the end in so so many ways.  <party>

Wishing someone crashes into the ditch is a little over the line dont you think frosty? You are the karma police after all.

You told me that this was getting old,, yet here YOU are still bringing it up.

 

[kfacres]

[size=10pt]
since the ASA had not notified the members

peices of shat-- and they wonder why I refuse to pay my dues, or register cattle with them...

 

[knabe]

With your inferred cussing in posts and actual cussing in pm's, it's a good thing you aren't a member.

Your child friendly quotient is pretty low if not aggressively anti child.

I say good riddance.

 

[jaimiediamond]

As for the potential defect it is up to us as breeders to report anything unusual and provide samples. It is also up to us as breeders not publicly discuss something that is at this time  only hearsay.  A positive outlook and breeders aiming for the commercial market being responsible is what the Shorthorn breed really needs negative energy does nothing but cause more negative energy.  Someone being positive and honest helps cause more positive energy food for thought.

You are kidding - right? How do you define hearsay? If we can't talk about it until we get some "official" notification hades might just freeze over - this is deja vu all over again - different defect, same ostrich

Positively speaking aj is going to submit samples on his calf that is pictured on the disappearing thread - positively speaking other breeders are now aware of the defect and there is some rib eye from a defective calf on it's way for testing - positively speaking some breeders are stepping up - positively speaking they would not have been aware had we not discussed the issue "publicly" - positively speaking if we don't know about the defect then how would we know to submit samples since the ASA had not notified the members - positively speaking I am surprised to see the ostrich again

We have an abnormality of Shorthorn calves involving the foot/leg below the hock - the phenotype is somewhat variable - all reported cases to date trace to a single Shorthorn bull or his sons - the 50K SNP Chip data suggests that the abnormality is genetic - to determine if it is genetic we need more samples -

Positively speaking keep your eyes open this calving season and if you have a calf with an abnormality as described send in samples, it is really pretty simple to be positive

I have some definitions for this thread.

Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience. What you have provided DL is a vague description of a possible non lethal genetic defect. 

Genetic Defects could be anything from a fatal recessive to a calf that is tight behind the shoulder.  The calf that is tight behind the shoulder has an undesirable trait that most people would cull out.

A rumour is often viewed as "an unverified account or explanation of events circulating from person to person and pertaining to an object, event, or issue in public concern".  In this case a Shorthorn bull. Rumour involves some kind of a statement whose veracity is not quickly or ever confirmed.

A number of cases (>5 and <10) of abnormalities of the distal leg/foot and dew claws in Shorthorn calves have been reported.

This is equal to a rumour as 5<>10 is vague especially when the number of offspring sired by this bull is many thousand .3% of this bulls offspring if we say 9 were reported have an abnormality in the hind leg if we start including the fact that sons and daughters are producing...

As for my being an ostrich…  Even though I have never used nor have a descendant of the bull in question I think that when there is very little science behind an accusation that is damaging to many people’s programs it is best to gather evidence rather than gleefully discuss it. Some so called “shorthorn breeders” are really just multipliers of cattle and like nothing better than an excuse to attack the breed. The information given about collecting data and being responsible I agree with. If it turns out the bull has a defect it will only be because responsible breeders sent in samples. Not because it was posted on steerplanet.

 

[DL]

As for my being an ostrich…  Even though I have never used nor have a descendant of the bull in question I think that when there is very little science behind an accusation that is damaging to many people’s programs it is best to gather evidence rather than gleefully discuss it. Some so called “shorthorn breeders” are really just multipliers of cattle and like nothing better than an excuse to attack the breed. The information given about collecting data and being responsible I agree with. If it turns out the bull has a defect it will only be because responsible breeders sent in samples. Not because it was posted on steerplanet.

With your attitude jamiediamond we would still be dumping TH and PHA and NH and AM and FCS (CA) calves in the dead pile and calling them a "freaks of nature". In those instances many "responsible breeders" did not turn in samples or affected calves or their relatives - many of these "responsible breeders" were board members (imagine that). Many of the "responsible breeders" said they had never seen any abnormal calves. In the early days, before the 50K SNP chip was more available, an informed pedigree was used to identify the mutation and many more samples were needed. Early on showsteers was responsible for getting the word out about potential defects and how to submit samples - but apparently you weren't around then. Interestingly the owners of showsteers had a bull they were promoting that turned out to be a carrier of a lethal genetic defect - but they still allowed to free flow of information.  With the availability of the 50K SNP chip fewer samples were needed to identify the mutations for NH and AM and FCS and OS and fewer samples will be needed to determine if this abnormality is genetic.

The science is that the calves have been  genotyped and all but one of them share a segment of 2.7 Mb for which they are homozygous.  Thus, there is some indication that it may be genetic, but as I have mentioned more samples are needed to confirm the cause.

If breeders do not submit samples or do not bother to think this hind limb abnormality could be genetic, then your numbers are irrelevant as the number of abnormal calves is unknown. Ask the Angus about how difficult it was to identify the phenotype of fawn calf syndrome (AKA contractural arachnodactyly, CA), another non lethal recessive defect. When the defect is subtle (not a big bloated or twisted dead calf) and the calf is not born dead, it is more difficult to obtain samples because people tend to believe it was "just weak" or "squished in utero" etc - this is especially true of abnormalities like FCA and this hind limb abnormality that, if the calf lives or is not euthanized because it cannot walk,  seem to improve as the calf ages.

Providing information on what to look for and what samples to submit is a good thing - how can it be bad?? With calving season approaching now is the perfect time to alert breeders to be on the lookout for this hind limb deformity

This is deja vu all over again - people saying if we talk about this potential genetic defect it will be "bad for the breed" and propagation of genetic defects is good for the breed? How about people just do the right thing - be alert and submit samples - is that so hard to ask?

I have not mentioned the bulls name in any of my posts, here or on the hidden thread. I have not bashed the breed, I have done what I have done since 2006 with different breeds and different defects - provided information and asked for samples  - if asking Shorthorn breeders to look for this abnormality and submit samples is "attacking the breed" then the breed has bigger problems than this potential genetic defect