Shorty hf bulls

[Doc]

My god are you annoying rarebird. Lets all listen to someone who cant tell me one animals bloodline in his super duper herd. He is like this great mystery poster. Hell I even tried in PM's with him to give him a chance. I think you are bogus. Maybe because your in Australia and Canada or wherever rarebirdz lives that you cant understand her. I did just fine. Rob Sneed has proven over time he has better carcass data along with the cows that stay more then anybody.  Tell me somebody who does it better? How bout you TDU. Why is it only a handful of bulls ever made it here from your neck of the woods????  Any 69 lb bw heifer bulls down there that in turn, those calves really grow and cut good? How bout you rarebirdz? Oh wait you wouldnt know what it would be. You just select on type right? and eyeball?


You folks just keep doing your thing. Those few of us who decide to do our own thing will wave to you folks who choose to follow as we pass you by. If you cant understand sue, you two should adjust your glasses and read between the lines.

Get some salt for that popcorn rarebirdz. Your the best cattlemen in the whole wide world. <beer>

I would say cost keeps it from happening alot. All though Barry Jordan is having some pretty good results. I would think that you TG would be a big fan of Aussie genetics. Stop & look at them. They cover more ground than anywhere here in the US , the grass in a lot of the places down there looks pretty sparse & they do a lot of grass fed. One reason they haven't been used as much up here is because of those reasons. They have the attributes to handle those conditions better than they do the showring.
That being said I have a Super Dazzler 2 yr old out of a Sonny cow that is really nice. I have a May, Moombi Powerplay bull calf out of a full Irish , Irish Mist dtr that is pretty durn neat. Bad thing on him is , is that he looks like a purebred old school Maine with stocking legs. As slick headed polled as you can get one though & thats out of a full Irish cow with no polled genetics in her. I will probably keep him around, stocking legs or not. So those genetics are being used up here.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

(pop) time to sit back relax n watch the fireworks.

Mind if I pull up a pew too?   (pop)

Im not personally attacking you tdu. Just sticking up for my friend. I have no bulls in Australia. Never tried. Doc, you and tdu are missing the point. Which was for all the aussie bulls that have been tried, very few have made a impact here. Dunbeacon Venture, maybe the IMF bull from Glenell.  Marellan Super Dazzler? Maybe? Just a lot of swings and misses is all Im saying. And a pew in the states is a seat in church, not a bar.

 

[thunderdownunder]

(pop) time to sit back relax n watch the fireworks.

Mind if I pull up a pew too?   (pop)

Im not personally attacking you tdu. Just sticking up for my friend. I have no bulls in Australia. Never tried. Doc, you and tdu are missing the point. Which was for all the aussie bulls that have been tried, very few have made a impact here. Dunbeacon Venture, maybe the IMF bull from Glenell.  Marellan Super Dazzler? Maybe? Just a lot of swings and misses is all Im saying. And a pew in the states is a seat in church, not a bar.

You're missing the point trevor - I never said anything about anyone for you to need to 'stick up' for them. I have never said anything derogatory towards anyone on this board - whether I agree with them or not - so I do take great offence at your attitude.
I refuse to be drawn into a pointless discussion with anyone who is as one-eyed and lacking in research or knowledge as you appear to be.
I could make sweeping generalisations about bulls from America, Canada etc, and their performance or lack thereof here, but what would be the point, because they're just that- generalisations. Just because I don't like what one bull from a particular country has or hasn't done doesn't mean that I should then tar all bulls from there with the same brush. That's another thing- it's also just my opinion, it doesn't mean anyone else agrees with me.

You should listen to Doc

I would think that you TG would be a big fan of Aussie genetics. Stop & look at them. They cover more ground than anywhere here in the US , the grass in a lot of the places down there looks pretty sparse & they do a lot of grass fed. One reason they haven't been used as much up here is because of those reasons. They have the attributes to handle those conditions better than they do the showring.

 

[aj]

I often wonder if jit,okietokes, jamie,down under, thunder under and rarebird weren't cousins sometimes. Sometimes their conversations come off as a commercial sometimes. But wait theres more!

 

[jaimiediamond]

I often wonder if jit,okietokes, jamie,down under, thunder under and rarebird weren't cousins sometimes. Sometimes their conversations come off as a commercial sometimes. But wait theres more!

breaking news it has been brought to my attention that aj is confused! Okotoks and Jaimiediamond are definitely family that has never been hidden!  jit and thunderdownunder would be excellent additions to my family as well since they have tons of knowledge that they are able to share rather then mindless drivel and musings.  Rarebirdz seems to be someone that I could be related too since he/she doesn't seem to have problem sharing their opinion!  Sadly though my family has not grown by 3 members so its just Jaimiediamond daughter of Okotoks

 

[justintime]

To my knowledge, I'm not related to any of those mentioned by aj( okotoks, jaimediamond, Thunderdownunder and rarebirdz) but my grandfather may have traded roosters with one of their grandfathers. I'm not sure if that makes us related or not!  I do see some qualities that we seem to share though. I think we all enjoy our cattle and the breed we have chosen to raise. I think we all enjoy a good animal regardless of its color or heritage.  I think we all spend most of our time thinking about the positives our cattle have and contemplate correcting the faults we see.I think we all know the negatives our chosen  breed possess but we also understand that all breeds have some negative issues.I think we all prefer to dwell on the positives and work on correcting the negatives. I think we all understand that we are all responsible for our own success and that dwelling on the negatives for more than a few brief moments does nothing to enhance our success. I think we all are students of pedigree and heritage in our cattle, and we all believe that in order to go ahead, we need a good idea of where our breed has come from.I think if we were payed for the time we have spent studying cattle and genetics, planning matings, and not only all the other production issues but also the marketing factors, we would be very wealthy.  I think we all wish the show ring would move more towards the comparison of breeding stock but at the same time, we understand that cattle shows do have a definite place in our industry. I think we all believe in promotion, and maybe even a little self promotion from time to time, but we also believe that if we don't promote our own cattle and our breeding programs, that no one else is going to do it for us. I think we all understand that a breed is made up of many kinds of producers from small family herds of a few show heifers and former show heifers to large commercial operations. We also understand that while these may be worlds apart , each has an important role in any breed.

So, if we seem to be cousins, it is just a coincidence. We maybe think more alike than some others do, but that is where the connection ends.

 

[rarebirdz]

Vanridge and tgcc when u run more than 1 bull with a group u have trouble who was sired by who. I ultrasound the bulls I purchase & the heifers I retain. I can tell u which cow produced who but I cant tell u who she is by or who her dam is bye as to many bulls r out at any given time. If a cow doesn't produce I don't keep her as I have collected data such as did she need assistence calvin if so y?   did her calf wean at well feed wel?  Howd her steer grade when I took him to town. How long did I feed the steer? My $$$$ cum from my end product

 

[oakview]

I would say all of us are paid by what we sell.  This thread needs to end.  They don't even make a third sequel to a good movie!

 

[vanridge]

Vanridge and tgcc when u run more than 1 bull with a group u have trouble who was sired by who. I ultrasound the bulls I purchase & the heifers I retain. I can tell u which cow produced who but I cant tell u who she is by or who her dam is bye as to many bulls r out at any given time. If a cow doesn't produce I don't keep her as I have collected data such as did she need assistence calvin if so y?   did her calf wean at well feed wel?  Howd her steer grade when I took him to town. How long did I feed the steer? My $$$$ cum from my end product

OK so you  keep records too.  ;D  We have a smaller herd and we've been able to run our cows in 2 groups for the main part of the breeding season because we like to try and mate our good mature cows to the shorthorn bull and hopefully get heifers off of them. The other bull we have had for the last few years is a black angus bull, and he is meant more as a terminal cross.  We have to do things a bit old school because we can't afford to ultrasound. However, the black angus bull we purchased did have ultrasound info and we really found that very useful! I wish more guys that sold bulls did that! I just had to comment on the sentence where you said pedigrees are just for purebred guys; that's just not true. We are definitely a commercial herd and always will be. And I don't like to draw the line between "that purebred guy" and "that commercial guy" There are smart, respectable people on both sides of the fence and the purebred industry wouldn't last without commercial herds and vice versa.   <beer> Now, just out of curiosity, do you cull a cow if she's had a heifer or two with bad ultrasound results but still weaned a decent looking calf?

 

[thunderdownunder]

Well as far as I know I'm not related to anyone on this board - JIT might be right, perhaps our grandfathers had an international rooster trade going on - but I'm more than happy to claim any of these people as family members! Seeing as we're family, perhaps Okotoks and jaimiediamond would like to share Christmas with me?

Oh, and keep watching, coz with my next post.... get your free set of steak knives!!

 

[aj]

I just cut through this 5 inch steel cable on the golden gate bridge......and LOOK! IT slices and dices better than before!

 

[JTM]

I think I am going to sleep now...  (argue)

 

[aandtcattle]

<beer> what age was he for the scan?  Im improvs with age so this maters Is the im adjustd or actul? Wat was he fed how long? Do the files show that info?

You all deserve this from the horse's mouth or the horse's ass, whichever you prefer.  Rob brought me a group of his bulls in October of 2008 to develop with my own for the inaugural Blue Collar test and sale.  The bulls were all fairly green going into the lot, none of the bulls, his or mine had been creep fed.  We had all the bulls together in the lot by the end of October.  At this time we vaccinated everything with Bovi-Shield 5, 7way blackleg with Somnus, poured with Dectomax and fusoguard.  Test period began November 15th with the majority of the ration being prairie hay with 4 pounds of alfalfa hay, 5 pounds of corn silage (as fed), and 5 pounds of rolled corn.  No soybean, no rumensin, no bovatec or anything else.  The bulls had free access to salt and mineral in the pen.  The bulls came off test January 14th for a 60 day test on a high forage ration.  Long enough to sort the top performers from the rest but short enough to have data compiled in time for a end of January sale.  The bulls were scanned somewhere around the 14th of January, I am not at home so I don't have the data in front of me, but none of the bulls in the sale were a full 365 days old at the time of ultrasound.  And none of the bulls were FAT.  If I remember correctly 329 was tied for highest BF out of the entire offering, which tells me he was one of the easier fleshing bulls in the lot, not to say he was overfat or anything because none were.  He definitely was nowhere close to the BF measurements coming out of some of the Denver pens, as he was in a group developed with their future and longevity in mind.  If anyone can research the catalog, 329 was Lot 4 in the sale.  My 3 purebreds were lots 1-3 and Rob wanted me to Lot his bulls so I ranked his bulls to my liking and threw them in the catalog in that order so 329 was my favorite out of the RS offering.  BTW, Lot 5 sold to Eddie Brown in Texas and Lot 6 went to HUB Ranch in Kansas - not bad!  Anything else?

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

And now we can put this baby to bed. Thank you sir.


BTW, aussie bulls are alright. I forgot about the kookaboora bull. I think the grove or something like that. I liked him. Solid red.
It seems to me as a outsider lookin in. Cows in down under seem to work well in Canada/ Europe and vice versa. Maybe that just means us yankees need to drink another one and revisit our genetics....................................nah. Or it just means we have very differnt circumstances in which we must try and turn a profit.

I for one have ran my mouth enough on this thread. I would like to see it go away. My way isnt the only way but it sure is a different way. As long as we all stop and think a little bit then I can live with that.

So whats the next massive shorthorn thread? shorty age verification? Oh boy. Two articles in one issue from the big chiefs is sure sending alot of smoke signals.

 

[thunderdownunder]

And now we can put this baby to bed. Thank you sir.


BTW, aussie bulls are alright. I forgot about the kookaboora bull. I think the grove or something like that. I liked him. Solid red.
It seems to me as a outsider lookin in. Cows in down under seem to work well in Canada/ Europe and vice versa. Maybe that just means us yankees need to drink another one and revisit our genetics....................................nah. Or it just means we have very differnt circumstances in which we must try and turn a profit.

I for one have ran my mouth enough on this thread. I would like to see it go away. My way isnt the only way but it sure is a different way. As long as we all stop and think a little bit then I can live with that.

So whats the next massive shorthorn thread? shorty age verification? Oh boy. Two articles in one issue from the big chiefs is sure sending alot of smoke signals.

Thanks for your approval of just one of the good Aussie bulls trevor. You might recall the Kookaburra progeny pics I have posted on several occassions. He's just one of the 'heifer' bulls whose calves really go on and perform. A Kooka son actually topped the National sale this year at $27,000, and he was by no means a small bull - 1080kg, 16mm and 12mm fat on the rump and rib, and 138sq cm EMA, and the top 5 or 10% for growth, carcase, RBY and all $indexes. Interestingly he has two shots of Blue Ridge Tritan, as well as Stonelea Winchester and TNT Fastrak 4U on the dam's side.

 

[justintime]

IMO, there have been some tremendous bulls sold in Aussie sales in the past couple of years. There have been several in the past few months that I would have loved to turn out into one of my breeding pastures.I don't I much anymore except for ET or sometimes sych a set of heifers and AI breed them, but I was seriously considering a couple of bulls in Australia in the past few months because of the excptional quality they offered.  The bulls I have really liked have come from a real cross section of bloodlines but most of the really good ones have had a bunch of Aussie bloodlines with some N American breeding in the background. I have been very impressed with Aussie cattle of both sexes lately, and they seem to be closer to right in the show ring as well. They show breeding stock there and don't just breed show stock

 

[Okotoks]

<beer> what age was he for the scan?  Im improvs with age so this maters Is the im adjustd or actul? Wat was he fed how long? Do the files show that info?

You all deserve this from the horse's mouth or the horse's ass, whichever you prefer.  Rob brought me a group of his bulls in October of 2008 to develop with my own for the inaugural Blue Collar test and sale.  The bulls were all fairly green going into the lot, none of the bulls, his or mine had been creep fed.  We had all the bulls together in the lot by the end of October.  At this time we vaccinated everything with Bovi-Shield 5, 7way blackleg with Somnus, poured with Dectomax and fusoguard.  Test period began November 15th with the majority of the ration being prairie hay with 4 pounds of alfalfa hay, 5 pounds of corn silage (as fed), and 5 pounds of rolled corn.  No soybean, no rumensin, no bovatec or anything else.  The bulls had free access to salt and mineral in the pen.  The bulls came off test January 14th for a 60 day test on a high forage ration.  Long enough to sort the top performers from the rest but short enough to have data compiled in time for a end of January sale.  The bulls were scanned somewhere around the 14th of January, I am not at home so I don't have the data in front of me, but none of the bulls in the sale were a full 365 days old at the time of ultrasound.  And none of the bulls were FAT.  If I remember correctly 329 was tied for highest BF out of the entire offering, which tells me he was one of the easier fleshing bulls in the lot, not to say he was overfat or anything because none were.  He definitely was nowhere close to the BF measurements coming out of some of the Denver pens, as he was in a group developed with their future and longevity in mind.  If anyone can research the catalog, 329 was Lot 4 in the sale.  My 3 purebreds were lots 1-3 and Rob wanted me to Lot his bulls so I ranked his bulls to my liking and threw them in the catalog in that order so 329 was my favorite out of the RS offering.  BTW, Lot 5 sold to Eddie Brown in Texas and Lot 6 went to HUB Ranch in Kansas - not bad!  Anything else?

329 was only eleven months old when they came off test so with that ration, a 3.93 IMF is really impressive (thumbsup)

 

[Okotoks]

IMO, there have been some tremendous bulls sold in Aussie sales in the past couple of years. There have been several in the past few months that I would have loved to turn out into one of my breeding pastures.I don't I much anymore except for ET or sometimes sych a set of heifers and AI breed them, but I was seriously considering a couple of bulls in Australia in the past few months because of the excptional quality they offered.  The bulls I have really liked have come from a real cross section of bloodlines but most of the really good ones have had a bunch of Aussie bloodlines with some N American breeding in the background. I have been very impressed with Aussie cattle of both sexes lately, and they seem to be closer to right in the show ring as well. They show breeding stock there and don't just breed show stock

I agree JIT, I have seen a few in the sales this year that I would like to use. Most of these Aussie cattle are bred to survive on grass in some pretty rugged conditions. The drought they just went through lasted several years. Shorthorn bulls are used in some big commercial operations over there.

 

[Doc]

IMO, there have been some tremendous bulls sold in Aussie sales in the past couple of years. There have been several in the past few months that I would have loved to turn out into one of my breeding pastures.I don't I much anymore except for ET or sometimes sych a set of heifers and AI breed them, but I was seriously considering a couple of bulls in Australia in the past few months because of the excptional quality they offered.  The bulls I have really liked have come from a real cross section of bloodlines but most of the really good ones have had a bunch of Aussie bloodlines with some N American breeding in the background. I have been very impressed with Aussie cattle of both sexes lately, and they seem to be closer to right in the show ring as well. They show breeding stock there and don't just breed show stock

Yea, JIT it's ironic the number of their cattle that go back to Grand Slam, Tribune, Fastrak & some others. I always got along with Slam & Tribune cattle . Didn't have much luck with Fastrak.

 

[aj]

I also impressed with the Aussie cattle. Hardy, rough tough cattle. This is were the rubber meets the road. Cattle that don't run around the tree 5 times. Cattle that have and will stand the test of time. Popular and eye appealing and functional.........both sexes.