Shorty hf bulls

[jaimiediamond]

EIONMOR MARQUIS 86G was brought up recently I thought I would officially mention him as a heifer bull.  He is a maternal brother to Mr. Gus

 

[kfacres]

what is the difference on the topside, and how will that matter in breeding ability, as compared to Gus 80c?

 

[coyote]

"You're right Okotoks, I do have pics of 2M- easily my favourite bull at Eionmor. If he had semen out here I wouldn't hesitate in getting some.
Those heifers were tremendous, one of the best lines of females I have seen. And the cows were all such functional, practical cattle.
I've also attached another Eionmor bull from that day, Ideal 82T. He was another bull that really impressed me."



Would those two Eionmor bulls be considered heifer bulls?
We used Ultra 8C (2M sire) and I would not use him on heifers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[jaimiediamond]

what is the difference on the topside, and how will that matter in breeding ability, as compared to Gus 80c?

Eionmor Mr Gus 80C is a direct son of Gafa Mohican while Eionmor Marguis 86G is sired by Eionmor Masterpiece 36D who is out of a Gafa Mohican cow. 36D is sired by Downsview Red Mist 53X. We used a bull that was linebred to Downsview Red Mist 53X, Eionmor Chief 16H. After we were done with Chief he went back to Einomor and Downsview where he was used for a couple of breeding seasons. The Downsview herd is built on really maternal cows, lots of milk but good udders. I would think Eionmor Marguis 86G should leave some good daughters but maybe best to check with some people who have used him. Not many bulls are there breeding at 13 years of age!

 

[Okotoks]

"You're right Okotoks, I do have pics of 2M- easily my favourite bull at Eionmor. If he had semen out here I wouldn't hesitate in getting some.
Those heifers were tremendous, one of the best lines of females I have seen. And the cows were all such functional, practical cattle.
I've also attached another Eionmor bull from that day, Ideal 82T. He was another bull that really impressed me."



Would those two Eionmor bulls be considered heifer bulls?
We used Ultra 8C (2M sire) and I would not use him on heifers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wasn't actually suggesting that they were just a little digression. But if they are not do you think I could get them cheaper? I could really sell bulls like that to my commercial customers!

 

[kfacres]

what is the difference on the topside, and how will that matter in breeding ability, as compared to Gus 80c?

Eionmor Mr Gus 80C is a direct son of Gafa Mohican while Eionmor Marguis 86G is sired by Eionmor Masterpiece 36D who is out of a Gafa Mohican cow. 36D is sired by Downsview Red Mist 53X. We used a bull that was linebred to Downsview Red Mist 53X, Eionmor Chief 16H. After we were done with Chief he went back to Einomor and Downsview where he was used for a couple of breeding seasons. The Downsview herd is built on really maternal cows, lots of milk but good udders. I would think Eionmor Marguis 86G should leave some good daughters but maybe best to check with some people who have used him. Not many bulls are there breeding at 13 years of age!

80c is available to us, if you can find the semen.. but is 86G? 

 

[jaimiediamond]

I believe that like with Gus you would have to search.  Studers Polled Shorthorns(owned) and Sullivan used the bull.  There are sons such as Studer's Trendsetter  http://www.fairviewshorthorns.com/cattle.html out there as well

 

[kfacres]

interesting..  thank you

 

[Okotoks]

   Studer's Trendsetter 31T              
                      xC459759 DOWNSVIEW RED MIST 53X
            C464995 EIONMOR MASTERPIECE 36D
                     C653934 EIONMOR MOCHICAN HAZEL 36Y
Sire: x3986086 PHA-F TH-F EIONMOR MARQUIS 86G
                       C452090 EIONMOR CAMELOT 70L
          xC645681 EIONMOR CAMELOT RUBY 94T
                          xC631786 EIONMOR RUBY AME 22L

                        xC461902 ALTA CEDAR ADMIRAL 46A
          x3995797 RAMSHOLT BALMUCHY PRINCE 24F
                       C650166 RAMSHOLT RITA MAE 18X
Dam: x4024396 DSF RONA 11K
                       xC457263 GAFA MOCHICAN
           x3996557 EIONMOR MOCHICAN RONA 6C
                      C647664 EIONMOR KNIGHT RONA 62U
Actual BW 76 lbs. Red polled...........................
 

 

[kfacres]

double bred mochican...  anything out there that is double bred to gus and marquis mother- that is young and unproven?  I did a short search on ASA, but saw that their mother only had 3 calves.. gus, marquis, and a heifer that sold to Iowa.  Perhaps, this is the just only three that made it to the states.  Is there anything in Canada

 

[Okotoks]

double bred mochican...  anything out there that is double bred to gus and marquis mother- that is young and unproven?  I did a short search on ASA, but saw that their mother only had 3 calves.. gus, marquis, and a heifer that sold to Iowa.  Perhaps, this is the just only three that made it to the states.  Is there anything in Canada

the following link takes you to the dam.

http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/pedigree.cgi?_breedcode=MS&_countrycode=&_regnumberprefix=F&_regnumber=645681&_regnumbersuffix=&_association=21

This link takes you to the CLRC.ca search page for Shorthorns.

http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/query.cgi?_association=21

 

[justintime]

"You're right Okotoks, I do have pics of 2M- easily my favourite bull at Eionmor. If he had semen out here I wouldn't hesitate in getting some.
Those heifers were tremendous, one of the best lines of females I have seen. And the cows were all such functional, practical cattle.
I've also attached another Eionmor bull from that day, Ideal 82T. He was another bull that really impressed me."



Would those two Eionmor bulls be considered heifer bulls?
We used Ultra 8C (2M sire) and I would not use him on heifers.

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I agree with coyote. I have also used Ultra 8C and I would never say he is a heifer bull. I am wondering about Marquis 86G as well. I don't know what his calving record is at Studer's and others that have used him, but there are some Eionmor bulls that are certainly not calving ease bulls. Just saying that if you are considering these bulls ...or any other bulls... for that matter, do your homework.

I still get phone calls asking me if Major Leroy and Saskvalley Pioneer 126P can be used safely on heifers. I tell them that I do not consider them , nor do I promote them, as being safe for heifers. I have never used Leroy on any heifers, but I know of some people who have done so successfully. I have used Pioneer on heifers and I have not had any problems, other than a backwards calf that needed assistance. I have not had any issues with the heifers I bred to Pioneer, but I still do not think of him as a heifer bull. There are just several better options out there.

As mentioned in this thread, there are lots of options to use on your heifers. FYI, HC FL Touchdown 123T ET , who is looking like he will be a good bull to use on heifers, will be going to Genex Hawkeye West, Billings, Montana later this week. He will be marketed by Genex throughout the US and Canada through their Added Attractions program and there should be semen available in the next few weeks. He had an actual BW of 82 lbs however, I see that he is shown as having a BW of 92 lbs on the ASA site. I have to contact them and see if this can be changed as it is an error. So far, his heaviest calf has been 85 lbs ( from a Salute sired dam) and we will know a bunch more this year, as we bred 62 females to him by natural service. He has proven to be extremely easy fleshing and the attached picture was taken in late August after he was done breeding. Of the 62 females, 61 are safe in calf, and by the ultrasound results, it appears he settled almost all of them on the first service. I have also attached a picture taken in June as well during the breeding season.

 

[kfacres]

double bred mochican...  anything out there that is double bred to gus and marquis mother- that is young and unproven?  I did a short search on ASA, but saw that their mother only had 3 calves.. gus, marquis, and a heifer that sold to Iowa.  Perhaps, this is the just only three that made it to the states.  Is there anything in Canada

the following link takes you to the dam.

http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/pedigree.cgi?_breedcode=MS&_countrycode=&_regnumberprefix=F&_regnumber=645681&_regnumbersuffix=&_association=21

This link takes you to the CLRC.ca search page for Shorthorns.

http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/query.cgi?_association=21

Of her offspring, 80C, was the only one who had any progeny registered, I think Marq had a few- but nothing like I thought. 

 

[Okotoks]

JIT, Touchdown looked great winning at Agribition but that's an awesome photo of him by the dugout. Should be pretty exciting at Horseshoe Creek 2011 calving season! (clapping)

 

[Shorthorns4us]

Just had to chime in to fill in information on what I know about 86G.

Please correct me if I am wrong on any of this information:  Last I knew-- I think 86G is deceased.  Also as far as I know there is not any semen for sale on the open market anymore.  I had heard that Studer's sold their final inventory to Sullivan's.  

I am still lucky enough to be in possession of several straws yet from past Studer sales when they would offer it.
I am going to hold it back and only use for flushes from now on.

I did use some of my inventory in heifers last summer and am expecting 3 calves this spring.
I also have some working Marquis 86G mommas in my herd and Marquis son that was used this past spring also.
I really like his calves and have had really good results with my Marquis cattle-- I would recommend him.
They are easy keepers, always in good flesh, and have nice udders.

Just sharing what I know about the line-- Studers have had lots of really good cattle out of the line.

 

[uluru]

I have a bred heifer that I bought from Dale that is a granddaughter of 86G. ASA Reg # x4152262 DSF Isle 49W
She is a sweet looking heifer and after hauling her from Iowa to Ontario and then to Sask a visitor said I should be showing her.
She looked that good and kept her condition well on the trip.
She is a small to moderate sized heifer with a BW of 84 lbs
She is bred to my Muridale Bonanza 85W bull, our Saskvalley Bonanza son.
Can't wait to see the calf in March.

 

[thunderdownunder]

"You're right Okotoks, I do have pics of 2M- easily my favourite bull at Eionmor. If he had semen out here I wouldn't hesitate in getting some.
Those heifers were tremendous, one of the best lines of females I have seen. And the cows were all such functional, practical cattle.
I've also attached another Eionmor bull from that day, Ideal 82T. He was another bull that really impressed me."



Would those two Eionmor bulls be considered heifer bulls?
We used Ultra 8C (2M sire) and I would not use him on heifers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting you say you wouldn't recommend 8C as a heifer bull coyote, because that's what we've used a lot of him on!! He's worked really well on our heifers.

 

[justintime]

"You're right Okotoks, I do have pics of 2M- easily my favourite bull at Eionmor. If he had semen out here I wouldn't hesitate in getting some.
Those heifers were tremendous, one of the best lines of females I have seen. And the cows were all such functional, practical cattle.
I've also attached another Eionmor bull from that day, Ideal 82T. He was another bull that really impressed me."



Would those two Eionmor bulls be considered heifer bulls?
We used Ultra 8C (2M sire) and I would not use him on heifers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting you say you wouldn't recommend 8C as a heifer bull coyote, because that's what we've used a lot of him on!! He's worked really well on our heifers.

I have only had 4 Ultra 8C calves and they were all from cows. BWs were between 95 and 110 lbs. The 110 lb was steered at birth and came from a smaller framed cow. Absolutely no calving problems and I am not knocking him as I think he is an excellent sire.I'm just saying that from my experience ( on a very few calves) that I would use some caution when using him on heifers. Maybe he is OK, but I did have some calves with some BW. I have some ET calves coming from him this spring and I am looking forward to them. I think 8C may be as good or even a better breeding bull than 80C.

 

[thunderdownunder]

8C is certainly up there as one of my all time favourites. I guess after seeing 2M, and his calves, that just reaffirmed it.

I'm not disputing you had some weight in the calves JIT, I guess it just shows how different genetic mixes get different results. There's no "safe bet", ever. There's a number of bulls in Aus that people swear by and think are the best thing going, but I wouldn't touvh them with a 50ft pole!! It's really interesting to see the mixed results people get, I guess that's what makes this game so much fun!

 

[Shady Lane]

8C is certainly up there as one of my all time favourites. I guess after seeing 2M, and his calves, that just reaffirmed it.

I'm not disputing you had some weight in the calves JIT, I guess it just shows how different genetic mixes get different results. There's no "safe bet", ever. There's a number of bulls in Aus that people swear by and think are the best thing going, but I wouldn't touvh them with a 50ft pole!! It's really interesting to see the mixed results people get, I guess that's what makes this game so much fun!

Thunderdownunder,

I have to completely agree with your statement regarding "Genetic Mix".

I find it interesting how one herd can have drastically different results from one sire versus your neighbour down the road using the same bull.

For example,

Several years ago, my father and I bred a group of females to AF SL Sin City, he was advertised with a low birth weight, had a tight and neat shoulder with lots of angle in his catalogue photo and looked had an attractive and streamlined skull, looked like he would calve easily! We used him primarily on heifers and guess what? He did calve easy! Very easy! Never touched one of them, very reasonable birthweights, calves up and going quickly,  no issues what so ever.

However, we never had much power or performance out of those calves and I don't think we ever even registered one? It was just sort of an "ok, he is a decent heifer bull, let's just leave it at that".

Talking with other breeders though, some commented on monstrous birthweights and calving issues. We were shocked to hear this!

Also I have seen some VERY big framed and high performing cattle out of this bull that looked like a polar opposite of the results in our herd.

My only explanation....

Different genetic mix clicking a different way.

Mix blue and yellow, you get green.

Mix yellow and red, you get orange.

Go figure!